Engine build questions (cam related)

[1993MTXSHO]

Hey guys I FINALLY got some time to get my engine together... well at least part way. Ms question is 1) how hard should the cam timing gears be to turn, I have stage 2 cams so I expect it to be harder then normal, but should they kinda click into 3 different positions as the lobes move? Thats what my parts car engine did and this one doesn't seem to be doing it. Its hard and almost impossible to turn by hand, I used a bar in the cam gear to move it but didnt press my luck. Everything is tqed down to spec with a good tq wrench and everything has tons of assembly **** on it. My second question is is this bad (picture)? The little plug ill call it, is sideways in the cam, it doesnt seem like id hurt anything but what it that there for?:thankyou:

edit: I just realized why it might be so impossible, maybe because it is! I haven't adjusted the valves yet and some are really far off, maybe the springs are compressing all the way and jamming it up?

 

[SASHO91]

Use a wrench on the camshaft. IIRC, it's something like 1 1/8'' or so.

 

[K-Dawg]

Oh boy. You should be able to turn it by hand. I either use a strap wrench on the cam gears or sometimes a wrench on the hex part of the cam. If you can't turn the cam, how are you going to adjust the valves?

That plug is there to keep oil from pouring out the other end of the cam. Yes it is necessary.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

Oh boy. You should be able to turn it by hand. I either use a strap wrench on the cam gears or sometimes a wrench on the hex part of the cam. If you can't turn the cam, how are you going to adjust the valves?

That plug is there to keep oil from pouring out the other end of the cam. Yes it is necessary.

so should I rtv that or seal it somehow or do you think its ok crooked like that?

 

[92ShoOff]

Ehhh... don't try rotating the cam sprockets by hand... you'll likely end up with bloody knuckles. When the next set of lobes clear the valve shims the sprocket will turn very rapidly and it you have your fingers in the wrong place you're bound to mash them a little. But it's very typical for the sprockets to be tough to rotate by hand. The way I generally do it probably isn't the best because you risk rounding off the head of the bolt some if you're not careful, but I take a 10mm socket, attach it to a ratchet and rotate one of the bolts that hold the sprocket on the cam clockwise (like you're tightening it). When the sprocket jumps over to the next set of cam lobes the socket just spins on the ratchet instead of sending a wrench or something across the room. Hope that helps, but I don't know what to tell you about that cap sitting sideways inside of the cam. I don't imagine it would make a bit of difference as long as it's wedged in there good and doesn't pop out.

 

[92ShoOff]

That plug is there to keep oil from pouring out the other end of the cam. Yes it is necessary.

Hmm good thought. If your cam sprocket doesn't make a liquid-tight seal against the other end of your camshaft then any oil that goes behind that plug will find it's way behind your timing covers and onto your timing belt and crank position sensor. I'd attempt to epoxy/RTV around that plug to seal it up (using oil-resistant stuff of course), and just to be safe maybe RTV the other end of the cam to the sprocket in case the sealant around the plug fails.

 

[SASHO91]

Ehhh... don't try rotating the cam sprockets by hand... you'll likely end up with bloody knuckles. When the next set of lobes clear the valve shims the sprocket will turn very rapidly and it you have your fingers in the wrong place you're bound to mash them a little. But it's very typical for the sprockets to be tough to rotate by hand. The way I generally do it probably isn't the best because you risk rounding off the head of the bolt some if you're not careful, but I take a 10mm socket, attach it to a ratchet and rotate one of the bolts that hold the sprocket on the cam clockwise (like you're tightening it). When the sprocket jumps over to the next set of cam lobes the socket just spins on the ratchet instead of sending a wrench or something across the room. Hope that helps, but I don't know what to tell you about that cap sitting sideways inside of the cam. I don't imagine it would make a bit of difference as long as it's wedged in there good and doesn't pop out.

That is a very bad way to do it.... and I have seen a few bolts shear off... then you need a new cam, unless your'e very careful and pull the rest of the bolt out....
Either way, I would not recomend turning the cam this way.

 

[K-Dawg]

I've never played with those seals, but I imagine they install the same way a freeze plug on the block does. I would pull it out and install a new plug.

If you are careful and expecting the cam to jump, you won't hurt yourself when turning the cam.

 

[K-Dawg]

That is a very bad way to do it.... and I have seen a few bolts shear off... then you need a new cam, unless your'e very careful and pull the rest of the bolt out....
Either way, I would not recomend turning the cam this way.

x2. :sun:

 

[Ishodu]

I've never played with those seals, but I imagine they install the same way a freeze plug on the block does. I would pull it out and install a new plug.

If you are careful and expecting the cam to jump, you won't hurt yourself when turning the cam.

I agree, you will want to remove that plug and go shopping to find another to fit.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

I agree, you will want to remove that plug and go shopping to find another to fit.

anyone know what size/type of plug that is?

EDIT: well i just checked it and it says dorman on it, and measured just about a half inch. So my guess is its a std. freeze plug type thing and I can probably just get one at napa or something. Im going there tomorrow ill have to see what they have, and get some high heat/oil resistant stuff to put it in with. Thanks guys!

 

[yamahaSHO]

You can tap that cap in the end of the cam in with a little force. SHO Shop regularly forgot to install these (and SHO Bros) so Pat and I had oil pouring out of our motors. On my second set, I knew to look for them and bought the plugs and installed them myself.

The plug sizes are 14mm and 20mm. If the current cap is the right size, you'll just have to tap it in until it seats on the ledge.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

You can tap that cap in the end of the cam in with a little force. SHO Shop regularly forgot to install these (and SHO Bros) so Pat and I had oil pouring out of our motors. On my second set, I knew to look for them and bought the plugs and installed them myself.

The plug sizes are 14mm and 20mm. If the current cap is the right size, you'll just have to tap it in until it seats on the ledge.

ah ok thanks, this must be the 14mm one then, and if i tap that in wont that break the seal and then it'll leak?

Actually come to think of it, does it even matter on the short cam? wont it leak right back into the head?

 

[egroce11]

As yamahasho said either pull the cap out and replace it or tap it in to the proper spot, that will take your worry about it away. Since you have stage 2 cams make sure you use the cam alignment spots, they are I believe 1 1/8" size wrench, try pulling them to turn them over, if you can't get them to turn then check timing on the lower end. You might have a problem with the valves hitting the pistons.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

As yamahasho said either pull the cap out and replace it or tap it in to the proper spot, that will take your worry about it away. Since you have stage 2 cams make sure you use the cam alignment spots, they are I believe 1 1/8" size wrench, try pulling them to turn them over, if you can't get them to turn then check timing on the lower end. You might have a problem with the valves hitting the pistons.

I dont think its the lower end as I didn't rush anything and really made sure everything was right, however im not ruling it out that is a good point. The pistons I have are supposed to be non interference still as I had deep valve pockets made on purpose. I am going to tap that cap in when i get a chance maybe tonight, but do I have to seal it or will it seal because its press fit or something?

 

[yamahaSHO]

There is no real seal... I did put a very light coat of RTV on the sides of mine, but if you think you need a seal, you can put some RTV on after it seats. There is no real pressure (especially if you have both sides capped) to push the oil out, so you'll be fine with just tapping it in until it seats.

As long as your motor is still non-interference, then you shouldn't be hitting the pistons. You could have something else binding. I have had that happen before, but I don't remember what it was.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

There is no real seal... I did put a very light coat of RTV on the sides of mine, but if you think you need a seal, you can put some RTV on after it seats. There is no real pressure (especially if you have both sides capped) to push the oil out, so you'll be fine with just tapping it in until it seats.

As long as your motor is still non-interference, then you shouldn't be hitting the pistons. You could have something else binding. I have had that happen before, but I don't remember what it was.

my guess is like what you said about your stage 2's is you needed to use really thin shims and I have all 2500 series in the engine now, and i bet its compressing the valve springs so much that they're really hard to turn or just fully compressed. I have a 2000 that im going to use to check all the gaps and stuff, I think im going to get a bigger strap wrench as the 2 I have arnt big enoug, thats probably the best and safest way to turn it. Im dealing with my atx right now, its got an exhaust leak but I think i fixed it good enough that it might pass inspection now, so im goign to give it a shot next week and see what happens. The mtx will be finished this summer as I have no way of working on it in my garage its just to small to install an engine. Then once thats done im selling the atx to recoupe some money because im pretty far in debt right now