Car takes a lot of turning over to finally start. Unless I leave key in on position

[95mtxshobuild]

When the car is cold, i usually turn the key to the on position, and wait about 10 seconds before i turn it over and it starts. Then it starts pretty quickly. If i just turn it over it takes a lot of turning over before it starts.. It makes me feel like something to do with fuel pressure? Maybe a new fuel pump? Also just latly things have been getting slowly worse and now the engine light comes on everyonce and a while, and the car wants to stall if i let the rpm go low enough it wont stay idling. But once i disconnect the battery cable it is good for sometime then it happens again. TYoday i am going to check the codes... Any advice appreciated.

 

[Speedy_91_SHO]

I does sound like a fuel pressure problem to me. Wether it is a relay or your pump itself is the question. Run your codes to see if your relay is throwing a code. When you disconnect the battery it resets the cars memory so it will run right until it throws the code. When you disconnect the battery you will want to perform the idle reset procedure. That procedure is here idle reset procedure. The stalling problem could also be your Vehicle Speed Sensor. My buddies VSS went bad and it would idle all over the place especially low, like 700 RPM's. It would then stall. Not that hard of a fix really, it was just getting the right part .

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Speedy_91_SHO ]</small>

 

[95mtxshobuild]

WEll I seemed to start two posts a lot alike. Here was one of the previous posts and a reply I got:

95mtxshobuild:
When the car is cold, i usually turn the key to the on position, and wait about 10 seconds before i turn it over and it starts. Then it starts pretty quickly. If i just turn it over it takes a lot of turning over before it starts.. It makes me feel like something to do with fuel pressure? Maybe a new fuel pump? Also just latly things have been getting slowly worse and now the engine light comes on everyonce and a while, and the car wants to stall if i let the rpm go low enough it wont stay idling. But once i disconnect the battery cable it is good for sometime then it happens again. TYoday i am going to check the codes... Any advice appreciated.

projectSHO89:
Wait until you post the codes.

Steve

So I tried to check the codes, and was pretty confused what i got. It blinked different numbers so many times.
First it blinked about 7 times but way to fast to get an accurate count. Then it blinked 5 times and paused then blinks once pause once again pauses, then after about 5 seconds it blinks 5 again pause then 1 pause 1 pause then pauses for 5 secs, then 1 pause 1 pause 1 pause 2 pause 1 puase 1 pause then pause for a bit then 6 pause 1 pause 2 pause 1 pasue 1 pause 2 pause then 2 pause 1 pauce 2 puase 6 pause 1 puase 1 pause 6 pause then 7 puase, and it kept going on, but i started to get frustrated and confused and tried to understand it again many times. Unfortunatly i gave up in frustration. Dont know what to do. I tested the car today after it started acting up on me again, the engine woudn't rev up, it woudln't idle, and was putting a lot of smoke out the exhuast, Once i got to my destination i shut it off for about 5 minutes, and went back out to it and strated it drove home and it was fine. That is when i tried to check the codes, though at the time engine light was not on. when it acvts up it goes on and off but never stays on. If i need to i might jusdt have to pay and have it put on a machine. But i dont know if it could be bad o2 sensors or a fuel pump starting to go bad or what. I havn't hjad the car too long and the guy left it all in a book what he had done. Carhas 152,000 miles on it and everything seems to be kept up except for the fuel pump, i dont think it has ever been replaced. And the car acts up onle about every 2 days.. I drive it about 250 miles a day for a commute, but besides driving on the errands once and a while it is fine on my long commutes.. Kind of weird.. Any help greatly appreciated..

 

[Rockledge]

Hang in there on the code reading. It can be frustrating at first, but after you do it enough times you will get more comfortable with the process of pulling trouble codes and it will become a valuable tool for you.

You sound like you know the process already, but according to the directions found at this website :

"4. Fast Codes are output (ignore fast light flashes)."

If you do ignore those first 7 or so quick flashes that you got, then according to your post, your SHO has at a minnimum, a "511" code which is PCM-related ("No power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM") and might very well be at the root of your problems. I would confirm this by running the test again.

If you do confirm the 511 code, then be sure to check all your battery connections and ground(s) before you determine that it is a bad PCM. This article may or may not be relevant to that: SHOTimes Battery Cable Article.

Like I said, don't give up on the code reading. The people who post codes around here always seem to get the most help and feedback, and there is a reason for that.

<small>[ January 01, 2004, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Rockledge ]</small>

 

[95mtxshobuild]

Ok, so am i looking for a 3 digit code? And it blinks once before it shows the same code? Is it also possible to show more then one code? Like if it shows the 511 twice then goes on after a good long pause and shows another code?
Appreciate it..

 

[Rockledge]

Yes, you are looking for 3 digit codes.

What happens is, there are two different sets of codes given. The Hard Codes are givien first. This first set of Hard Codes can consist of a single code, or it can be more than one code.

Then there is a "seperator".

Then the Memory Codes are given. This set of codes can also consist of one or more codes.

Now if you apply this to what you posted, it seems to me that you have a single Hard Code of 511, at a minnimum. After that, it gets a little hard for me to follow your description. But the 511 code is something that you would have to fix first anyway, and like I said, it indicates a problem with power to your computer (or even a bad computer), so it might be causing other codes to be set, as well.

Run the codes again to confirm. wink

 

[95mtxshobuild]

Ok, thanks I did forget to mention that there is a superchip installed, was there before i got the car. Maybe i should start by removing it? Doesn't seem to change much anyways. Guess i am understanding the reading of the codes better. I thought i was looking for a two digit number.. Guess i am gonna go and try again... Thanks for your help..

 

[95mtxshobuild]

///

 

[projectSHO89]

The Supership will cause the 511 code as will any other aftermarket chip. Either ignore the code (it won't affect anything else for testing) or remove the chip for diagnostic purposes.

Steve

 

[pete c]

How old is your fuel filter? This is an often ignored part. A clogged filter will cause a delay in getting your fuel system pressure up to a point where it will start.

Next time you park it, turn off the stereo and climate control. Later (a few hours) when the car is cold, hop in. Put the key in the ignition, turn it to on and listen. You will hear the fuel pump start. If all is well, the pump will turn off in a few seconds, signifying a fully pressurized fuel system. If it takes more than a few seconds to turn off, you may have a clogged filter. If it stays even longer, you probably have a clogged filter and a shot pump.

I would suggest changing the filter if it has been in more than 20K miles or so. Not sure what the actual recommended interval is.

The filter is cheap and relatively easy to change. Mine was the original (I think) and was frozen in place. Had to cut one side of the plastic fuel line. Got a replacement piece to splice in from NAPA, about 20 bucks.

Good luck.

 

[projectSHO89]

pete c:
If all is well, the pump will turn off in a few seconds, signifying a fully pressurized fuel system. If it takes more than a few seconds to turn off, you may have a clogged filter. If it stays even longer, you probably have a clogged filter and a shot pump.

Hey, pete!

Have to point out that the power-on priming sequence is strictly based on time. The interval is around 1.5 seconds and is controlled by programming in the PCM. Leaving the ignition key in the ON position after the prime sequence will not cause any additional fuel pump activity.

There is no fuel pressure sensor on these cars. That wasn't introduced until the advent of returnless fuel systems in the late 90's (98-99) under the OBD-II systems).

Steve

 

[pete c]

Steve,

That may be so with SHOs. I found out differently with my POS '89 3.8 slowagon. Learned this lesson from a mechanic at the worst possible time (on vacation in maine a few years ago). With the clogged filter it would stay on indefinitely. After he put a new filter in, it would shut off after a while.

 

[projectSHO89]

It is the same with all vintages of the Taurus prior to the implemantation of the returnless fuel systems. There is no fuel pressure sensor on any OBDI versions.

If your pump had continued to run, it was likely due some other fault in the system/circuit.

Steve

 

[95mtxshobuild]

Just an update, removed superchip, and walla.. Still no problems 600 miles later. Thanks for all the help.

 

[95mtxshobuild]

beer Just an update, removed superchip, and walla.. Still no problems 600 miles later. Thanks for all the help. hail