Base model 7 speaker system--specs and details?

[jim1274]

I have been reading posts and mulling over an upgrade path for my 2012 with the base (non-Sony) audio system and have a few questions:

Does this system have a separate amp or is it integral to the head unit?

Can anyone point me to a system schematic diagram like I saw posted for the Sony system in a couple threads?

Has anyone replaced the 6 by 8 door speakers, and if so, was there a marked improvement? Any details or description of the factory ones? Are they just basic cheap paper cones or of a higher quality? I assume they are single driver and not coaxial given there are door pillar tweeters?

 

[hawkeye18]

Has anyone replaced the 6 by 8 door speakers, and if so, was there a marked improvement? Any details or description of the factory ones? Are they just basic cheap paper cones or of a higher quality? I assume they are single driver and not coaxial given there are door pillar tweeters?

I can't help you for the rest of it, but I can absolutely guarantee that replacing your door speakers with a pair of quality units will drastically improve the quality of the sound. My Mustang's door speakers (also 6x8) were atrocious pieces of crap, and any time the stereo was cranked above about 25% volume the sound just turned to absolute muddled shit. I threw a pair of good Pioneers in there and there was a marked difference. Clarity as well as volume were much improved. It's absolutely worth it.

As for single vs. coax, if there is a door tweeter, they are very likely single-driver. It would probably not hurt to go with a pair of good single-driver speakers, and get good tweeters to replace the factory offerings.

 

[jim1274]

Thanks, Jason, and my experience has been the same with replacing OEM speakers on other cars. Actually, the pillar tweeters seem to sound pretty good, so I was thinking they could stay unless somebody here has replaced them and found a noticeable difference. Since this is called a "premium sound" system when you get to the SHO trim level, I am really curious what, if anything, that means in terms of upgraded speakers. I even tried to look online for OEM replacement speakers for the SHO, thinking there might be a photo or even a price point that would give me some idea, but came up empty.

I trolled some of the car audio forums and vendor sites for replacement 6 by 8's, and the "D" series Pioneer speakers were considered good sound and value by many. Those and Rockford Fosgate "Power" speakers seemed to be well regarded in mid-price range--about 75 bucks a pair for either of them. But those are not single driver speakers, so probably not good candidates for the front. (The rear has no separate tweeter like the front pillar so may benefit from coaxials) I am thinking, given the location down low in the door, there is not much point in putting some high-end fancy speaker in there.

I did notice that the "premium" sound still has the same trunk trim set-up as the cars with Sony audio--they did not bother to have a different rear deck bottom trim and just used the one with the bump-outs for the 6 by 9's subs with the Sony. Actually, while I am not going to do it, I really wonder if the sound would not have been a LOT better by using that position for rears instead of down low in the door. I think Ford made the "premium" sound as crappy as they could get away with to force people to pay for the Sony upgrade. This really is an embarrassing sound system for a car at this price point--my almost 7 year old Acura TL base system blows it away on many fronts.

 

[jim1274]

Any details or description of the factory ones? Are they just basic cheap paper cones or of a higher quality? I assume they are single driver and not coaxial given there are door pillar tweeters?

Well, I dug around in the forum some more and at least found a photo of the door speakers in another thread on door panel removal:

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/raschmidt/Automotive/2011 SHO/Rattle.jpg

It is hard to tell the cone composition from the photo, but does answer the question of coaxial or single driver--don't see anything other than a single cone in the photo.

Nobody makes a single driver component speaker in 6 by 8 from what I can find, so it is either just use a coaxial and have a tweeter that does nothing (have to assume the door speaker has a low pass filter on it, but suppose they could be running full range and just letting the natural roll-off take place) or get an adapter plate and run a smaller size. I'm thinking just use a 6 by 8 coaxial for max surface area on the woofer and don't worry about the possibly superfluous tweeter.

 

[SHOrod]

The speaker in the photo is from a 2011 with the Sony system. It appears to be a polypropylene cone, or some other plastic like material, but not just a coated paper cone. And you're correct, it was just the driver, no tweeter since the tweeter is located in the pillar.

-Rod

 

[SuperHO]

You can get 6x8 adapter plates to allow for fitment of a 6" round speaker if you wanna go.that route....a lot easier to find single mid woofers in that size.

 

[jim1274]

The speaker in the photo is from a 2011 with the Sony system. It appears to be a polypropylene cone, or some other plastic like material, but not just a coated paper cone. And you're correct, it was just the driver, no tweeter since the tweeter is located in the pillar.

-Rod

Thanks, Rod--did not realize it was a Sony rig--the "premium" in my base model could be a completely different animal. I would have assumed the Sony would come with decent driver materials.

 

[jim1274]

You can get 6x8 adapter plates to allow for fitment of a 6" round speaker if you wanna go.that route....a lot easier to find single mid woofers in that size.

Yeah, if I want to go with the 6 by 8, it would have to be a multi-driver--did not find a single 6 X 8 that was not a 2-way or 3-way. I was thinking that the 6 by 8 might have a little more bass, but need to check some specs.

Sure wish I would have just gotten a car with the Sony and not had to mess with this.....

 

[jontyrees]

I thought all SHOs came with the Sony system, or do you have a non-SHO Taurus? My previous 2008 Taurus Limited had the premium sound system, and it was suprisingly good - it had the two 6x9 subs in the rear deck, just like the Sony in the SHO, and the sound was generally very good. That said, I have replaced the 6x8s in my wife's old Mazda MPV minivan, her new Bose equiped Mazda CX-9, and my son's 2001 Crown Vic. I used Kenwoods in the van and the Vic, and Bostons in the CX-9. All worked well and improved the clarity of the sound dramatically. The Bose system in the CX-9 was terrible - totally a case of "no highs, no lows, it must be Bose".

One thing you should be aware of though is that the stock system you have may be very low powered, and you might actually experience a DROP in volume for a given placement of the volume ****. Those cheap paper drivers are generally very easy to push, and often have really low impedance (allowing the tiny stock amp in the stock radio to push them a bit more power). The Bose system I added the Bostons to did at least have some power from a stock outboard amp - maybe 20wpc or so - and they sound good now (I also replaced the dash speakers with Boston 3.5" coaxials). In the MPV and the Crown Vic, I added a separate amp for the new speakers, giving them a legit 50watts apiece. That makes a world of difference, but I understand the complexity and space requirement that adds.

One other option that honestly makes a stock system sound a LOT better would be to add a small amp and a sub - or couple of small free-air subs in the empty holes in your parcel shelf. You could do that or go the all-in-one route with something like an Infinity Baslink, or some other option from Crutchfield.com or similar. It's pretty easy to install one, or a local installer would charge less than $100. What that would do is add a lot more low end than you have now, and allow you to take the bass load off your stock speakers. Replacing them with better ones and adding a small sub would do a lot.

Good luck!

 

[jim1274]

Nope, it is a 2012 SHO with no options--Sony is an option. I guess mine is not even "premium" as there is nothing in the rear deck--just have speaker in each door, a center on the dash, and 2 tweeters in the pillars.

Understood on the loss of volume possibility--was going to make sure any speakers used in doors were same or better db efficiency than factory...if I can even find out the efficiency rating of the OEM ones...and the impedance.... A separate amp is a possible option, but do not even know the rating yet of the OEM one, nor if it is separate or integral to the head unit.

I am definitely looking at adding a sub after further reflection. My goal is to keep the car stock in appearance, so no boxes in the trunk. That JL Audio rig that goes in the spare tire well meets that criteria, but really don't want to spend a grand plus install for a sub. I put this compact powered sub in my silverado and it helped a little: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-icq58OpkDLG/p_023THB200A/Blaupunkt-THb-200A.html There are several similar products in this form factor. That Infinity Baslink caught my eye, but too big for my "stealth" idea.

 

[jontyrees]

Nope, it is a 2012 SHO with no options--Sony is an option. I guess mine is not even "premium" as there is nothing in the rear deck--just have speaker in each door, a center on the dash, and 2 tweeters in the pillars.

Understood on the loss of volume possibility--was going to make sure any speakers used in doors were same or better db efficiency than factory...if I can even find out the efficiency rating of the OEM ones...and the impedance.... A separate amp is a possible option, but do not even know the rating yet of the OEM one, nor if it is separate or integral to the head unit.

I am definitely looking at adding a sub after further reflection. My goal is to keep the car stock in appearance, so no boxes in the trunk. That JL Audio rig that goes in the spare tire well meets that criteria, but really don't want to spend a grand plus install for a sub. I put this compact powered sub in my silverado and it helped a little: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-icq58OpkDLG/p_023THB200A/Blaupunkt-THb-200A.html There are several similar products in this form factor. That Infinity Baslink caught my eye, but too big for my "stealth" idea.

Yep - those are the lines I was thinking along. Crutchfield has some other compact systems too, maybe with a bit more power. Their own label sound Ordnance solution might be good, but I haven't heard them. I would definitely take a look at mounting a couple of small subs that can play free-air (no box) in the empty slots - I bet an 8" would fit, and the trunk would act as a box also. I'm sure you could tuck a small amp up under the middle of the parcel shelf. I put a Rockford Fosgate d-class (digital) sub amp good for I think 300W into a 4ohm load, or 500W into a 2ohm load in my kids Crown Vic, and that thing is tiny. I'm thinking about 7" square. It works fine and pushes a 10" JL Audio 10W3 to very high volume. These new amps are small and run cool, plus it almost entirely eliminated any alternator whine we were getting with the old school 2ch Fosgate we were using.

 

[jim1274]

Yep - those are the lines I was thinking along. Crutchfield has some other compact systems too, maybe with a bit more power. Their own label sound Ordnance solution might be good, but I haven't heard them. I would definitely take a look at mounting a couple of small subs that can play free-air (no box) in the empty slots - I bet an 8" would fit, and the trunk would act as a box also. I'm sure you could tuck a small amp up under the middle of the parcel shelf.

FWIW, the Sound Ordanance seems to be a pretty well received product for the price and obvious limitation of a small enclosure. Found a fair number of comments on other car forums, generally favorable--seem popular in compact truck forums.

As for under shelf mounted subs, I thought of that, but assumed the rear shelf would need to have sheet metal modified/cut and the shelf top material cut for grills. Mine has the molded bump outs in the trunk for where other system versions would get the 6 by 9 woofers--maybe a low profile 6.5 woofer would fit In those "cups" and not require mod of trunk liner? I'd still need to cut the rear deck lid though if I am understanding correctly.

 

[wildosvt]

U just make a wood spacer and screw that to the underside of your rear deck. Then mount your "cover". It has already been done.

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=118874&highlight=subwoofer

you would be waisting your time to put a 6.5 in the 6x9 locations. They do not have enough cone area to fill that huge trunk. Now if you were to do a t-line box with a NICE 6.5 thats a whole new discussion! Its a current project of mine, But with a single 8".

Here is a Kicker 6x8 component set. I seen that someone mentioned they could not find one, Probably due to Crutchfields limited selection.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kicker-DS68...963289326?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item416ab790ee

 

[jim1274]

U just make a wood spacer and screw that to the underside of your rear deck. Then mount your "cover". It has already been done.

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=118874&highlight=subwoofer

you would be waisting your time to put a 6.5 in the 6x9 locations. They do not have enough cone area to fill that huge trunk. Now if you were to do a t-line box with a NICE 6.5 thats a whole new discussion! Its a current project of mine, But with a single 8".

Here is a Kicker 6x8 component set. I seen that someone mentioned they could not find one, Probably due to Crutchfields limited selection.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kicker-DS68...963289326?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item416ab790ee

I stopped at the local custom car audio shop today and chatted about upgrade options. We went over a bunch of upgrade paths and options at different price points. They are big fans of the JL Audio Stealthbox and sell a lot of them. He suggested upgrading the door speakers and adding a Stealthbox and the JL 700/5 amp to run the whole system. I'm still choking on the cost, but this does sound like a pretty good upgrade.

As for the Kicker component set, I was thinking of maybe just using Rockford Fosgate T1682's for the front and rear doors:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.aspx?itemid=112900

Don't see the point of components in the rear given they are down low and just more of a fill function. The fronts already have tweeters in the pillars, and while the tweets on the 1682's are redundant, I'm thinking they might work fine--maybe a full range speaker down there would sound better actually? Dual-ing tweeters?

 

[wildosvt]

I would run the dual tweets. It doesnt sound like your doing an aftermarket headunit and the factory tweets are tamed down alot. It is funny you post those rockfords, I have been pondering over that same set. I have also been stuck on doing a 6.5" plate with an additional tweeter mounted by it. I'll get it sorted one day. But enough of my problems LOL.

Speaking of rockford, you cold elect to save more than $200 and check out this amp instead of the JL Audio (I love JL, I just refuse to pay the price for what you get) and Rockford has been making strides with their recent offerings.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34760_Rockford-Fosgate-R600-5.html

::link updated during edit!::

 

[jim1274]

I would run the dual tweets. It doesnt sound like your doing an aftermarket headunit and the factory tweets are tamed down alot. It is funny you post those rockfords, I have been pondering over that same set. I have also been stuck on doing a 6.5" plate with an additional tweeter mounted by it. I'll get it sorted one day. But enough of my problems LOL.

Speaking of rockford, you cold elect to save more than $200 and check out this amp instead of the JL Audio (I love JL, I just refuse to pay the price for what you get) and Rockford has been making strides with their recent offerings.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34760_Rockford-Fosgate-R600-5.html


::link updated during edit!::

I did quite a bit of research on the car and car audio forums, and the Rockford Fosgate speakers came up a lot at their price points as good speakers and good values. The local shop said stay away from the bottom line "Prime", but the Punch and Power were solid choices. The other line that seemed to be recc'd a lot in the same price range as the Power I am looking at is the Pioneer "D" series (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Speakers/D-Series/TS-D6802R)

Thanks for the amp link--that seems quite the bargain! Try more like 250 bucks less. I am wondering at less than half the price, what is the catch? That seems almost too good to be true! I will have to ask the custom shop--they sell both lines. Maybe the R600-5 has less features--will scope that out. It is a little less power, but not enough to explain that price diff. You generally get what you pay for, so am wondering if the JL is a much higher quality unit? Aaarrghhh...more research....

 

[jim1274]

Speaking of rockford, you cold elect to save more than $200 and check out this amp instead of the JL Audio (I love JL, I just refuse to pay the price for what you get) and Rockford has been making strides with their recent offerings.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34760_Rockford-Fosgate-R600-5.html

::link updated during edit!::

I did a little surfing to find a comparison of the two amps, and while no detailed comparos were found, Crutchfield had them both so I did the "compare" chart:

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Prod...1|136XD7005&compareItems=01|575R6005&g=347150

Notable differences:

The JL was a lot more powerful on the 4 channels (50 vs 75)

The JL had a MUCH better S/N ratio, 104 vs 70

The JL had 12 and 24 slopes on the low pass vs just 12

The JL had a 50-500 range on low pass vs fixed 80

So, you do get what you pay for?

 

[wildosvt]

(Its early and I am not 100% with it yet)

1-The 6802R's were popping up during my searching as well. The tweeter on that thing is supposedly a thing of beauty in 5x7/6x8 land.

2-Do you plan on ever upgrading the factory headunit?

3-The rockford was just another affordable option.

4- If you do not plan on a HU upgrade. Do you plan on getting (if it is even a probem on the standard SHO system) any audiocontrol products to pump up the signal to the amplifiers?
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/17612/OEM-Integration.html

Or even the JL Audio clean sweep?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HovE7k0Bcc

 

[jim1274]

(Its early and I am not 100% with it yet)

1-The 6802R's were popping up during my searching as well. The tweeter on that thing is supposedly a thing of beauty in 5x7/6x8 land.

2-Do you plan on ever upgrading the factory headunit?

3-The rockford was just another affordable option.

4- If you do not plan on a HU upgrade. Do you plan on getting (if it is even a probem on the standard SHO system) any audiocontrol products to pump up the signal to the amplifiers?
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/17612/OEM-Integration.html

Or even the JL Audio clean sweep?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HovE7k0Bcc

1. Ironically, the tweeter is probably the least important aspect since they are down low and redundant in the front. I'm thinking the front door mid-bass single driver is running full range and just using natural roll-off. Will addition of a tweeter in the front door unbalance the frequency distribution and make it too "bright"? Ford did NOT put a coax (like they have in rear) in there on the Sony for a reason, right? One might need to have ability to control level in the pillar tweeters under that scenario? Now I am thinking a coax in the rear is OK given no supplemental tweeter back there--that is exactly what Ford did on the Sony. My base model? Who knows what they might have put back there...

2. No, I was planning to keep the head--want to retain all the stock features like sync and keep this as close to OEM as possible. My goal is to have it look like stock--was even going to hide the outboard amp and any signal processors needed.

3. If the Rockford feature set has everything I am going to need for this project, I am all for affordable--recall the reduced feature set on the crossovers might be a limitation--this is yet to be dug into fully. This is getting expensive fast, and any corner I can cut without degrading performance is certainly going to be looked at.

4. I actually looked at those products, but I THINK the JL amp has most of the integration built-in. Funny you said this as I was JUST headed over to the JL site to look at how this integration works--thought I might even dig around for the owners manual. So my answer is yes, but not sure yet what is the best solution for integration and DSP.

Thanks for your comments and questions--it is helping me a lot with my thought process on this.

 

[jim1274]

I would run the dual tweets. It doesnt sound like your doing an aftermarket headunit and the factory tweets are tamed down alot. It is funny you post those rockfords, I have been pondering over that same set. I have also been stuck on doing a 6.5" plate with an additional tweeter mounted by it. I'll get it sorted one day. But enough of my problems LOL

From my last post, you can see I am starting to lean toward just a single mid bass driver in the front doors. There are a LOT of them out there, and I have not tackled selecting one.

Do I need to be concerned about fit in the front door mounting position? Is there a max depth spec I need to be checking on any prospects? Is there a specific adapter plate folks are using to go to a round speaker in this 6 by 8 opening? Will any 6.5 fit or am I going to be limited? Are there any advantages to stepping down to a 5.25?