Wrapping intake pipe << Numbers are in

Discussion in 'Generation 4 - General Discusson' started by SuperPete, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    This is something that has been on my mind as long as I had this car, about 5 months now.
    I been reading up and did not find anyone really proving this or denying this, so I decided to test it myself.

    Intake short ram pipe, in my case its K&N aluminum pipe that heat soaks like crazy during stops.
    I know some will say that it don't matter because turbos compressing air and making it hot anyway, then why worry about cold air intake from outside of the engine, let just take one from engine bay and call it good, anyway back to my test.

    Ambient Temp 36F

    TEST 1, AS IS
    For car to full operating temp, engine and transmission, pulled in to garage shut the engine down for 5 minutes. after 5 min came back started engine up and here are my measurements after 5 min heat soak:

    Intake Temp (at the filter) - 68.00F
    CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 70.16F
    IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 120.19F

    TEST 2, wrapped short ram pipe with exhaust heat shield wrap, see photos.
    30 min after first test, Went back for another quick drive to bring my temps back up to same temps, came back home, parked in the garage, shot engine off, 5 min later, started the car and readings are:

    Intake Temp (at the filter) - 62.59F
    CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 73.06F
    IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 122.00F

    SO HERE YOU GO for everyone to think about and see if there are any benefits of it or not.
    I am sure summer day with 95F outside change will show more dramatic...
     

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  2. 802SHO

    802SHO FULL SEND

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    Interesting. I think more tests need to be performed to give the wrap a better chance.

    Test 1, cold start? Warm up, quick drive, park, start....Heat Soak environment and readings without the wrap.

    Test 2, wait 30 min, add wrap and same protocol, drive, park, start. The Intake temp was down, everything else within 2-3° .

    This is my thinking and questions. Do you think without the wrap, test 2 would have seen even hotter temps across the board? CAC and IAT2 went up but perhaps without the wrap much more than 2-3°? So I wonder if the wrap is helping more than it seems but perhaps once its heat soaked....its heat soaked....and the wrap couldn't reduce that once it had already begun. I wonder if overall the wrap does keep it colder and on average cooler than if there were no exhaust wrap.

    I suggest more tests. Cold start with wrap, quick drive, park, sit 5 min, start. Twice in a row. Then let the car cool for a few hours. Cold start no wrap, then another test no wrap. Then maybe the results will be more clear?
     
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  3. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    Agree, more test need to be done and I think at warmer temperatures, now we are in deep 20's-30's here in PA..
    Was driving to work this morning and noticed absolutely no temp increase on intake sensor during traffic light stops.
    More tests to be done, I also think of wrapping pipes all the hotpipes, looking in to better wrap, something with better insulation, exhaust heat wrap is fine, but I believe there is better materials out there for this job.
    Tape looks nice, but its too thin, I believe that maybe wrapping with layer of foam material of some kind then tape on top will give better results.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  4. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    TO answer your questions: test 1 and 2 was done with in one hour to fully warmed up to full operating temp's, drove for hour and half before the tests.
    Mainly I was after intake temps, CAC and IAT2 was too close between the test, I believe there will always be plus minus 2F, its' nothing to worry about, anything above 10% is what I am after.

    between the test pipe was taken out, and spent some time on my desk and I believe was fully cooled down, plus before 2nd test I was driving for 15 min so it had chance to coll down to 30F Ambien before I performed 2nd test.
    I gave exact same environment to both test, they were identical.
     
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  5. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    Dude, this just wont let me rest, all day at work I been thinking and made up my mind on "heat soak"
    Simply, lets say its 40F outside, cold air flown trough the intake pipes, as it flown it keeps them cool by stripping heat they are absorbing from the 180F engine.
    as we stop, flow stops to them minimum and pipes pickup all the heat, as you start driving as heat exchange you strip that heat from material and carry in to the engine, cooling pipes.
    So, simply you need to keep pipes cool and you will drop heat soak by say 50%, WHY 50? because we still got metal manifold mounted to the engine that even if you heat shield, it will still pickup heat from the contact point with the engine, and that is whole different story.

    The big question in my mind, how much benefit will I get in horse power by dropping temps?
     
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  6. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member

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    Unlikely you will get anywhere near the benefit of the upgraded intercooler. At most like a K&N vs stock air filter.
     
  7. 6500rpm

    6500rpm Quality Always Shoots Straight

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    While this is interesting, for the life of me I can't understand the lack of a closed box CAI that only draws in air from the outside? That and possibly better venting of heat in the engine compartment.....
     
  8. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    You are correct. I bought this car with what you see already installed, I know I need to get me a boxed filter...
     
  9. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    Ok, more tests, and again please have in mind, it's 24F outside and heat soak NOT AS DRAMATIC as it would be in 60, 70 or 90F ambient.
    And to the numbers:

    30 min drive from work, nice and hard, engine up to the temps, I pulled in to garage, took picture of the gauge for the reference, shot car OFF and took 4 measurements with laser heatgun, pictures 1A, B, C, D

    Let the car rest in the garage for 5 min exactly, hood closed, opened the hood again and took more measurements, at same points, see pictures 2A, B, C, D

    Another test 5 min later (10min after shutting car off) 4 more pics, same points, pictures 3A, B, C, D

    S0, the moral of the story, heat soak comes from heated pipes and air striping heat and carrying in to the engine.

    Next it wrapping pipes, all pipes with good heat insulating wrap, not some foil, LOL and doing more tests.
     

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  10. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    I do have GearHead intercooler installed, but it does not help when you idling, it will benefit minute after you take off, but right from there start it's not doing much
     
  11. 802SHO

    802SHO FULL SEND

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    Nitrous will cool it down :burnout:
     
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  12. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    Point is to keep it cool so you don't have to spend additional effort of cooling down.
    Intercooler is good upgrade but if it spends it's potentials on cooling air that you heated up, instead of cooling cool air even cooler.
     
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  13. 802SHO

    802SHO FULL SEND

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    I looked this up on YouTube. A bunch of videos on this. Definitely appears to work/aid in reduced heat soak. Turbo blankets also work well, don't know if we can get some on ours or not. Ppl do get their turbos disassembled and thermal coated. We need that intake manifold spacer...forget the name of it, but it would significantly reduce the radiant heat from the head from increasing the intake manifold temps.

    Wet dream setup would be everything thermal coated...(Hotpipes, intake, downpipes) turbos too and that intake manifold spacer.
     
  14. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    Yes and yes.
     
  15. SM105K

    SM105K Stand Bye To Get Some!

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    Your main problem is the transverse set up. If you have a single point air intake point everything is routed around the engine which will heat the intake pipes up. Unless you route the rear turbo intake pipe towards the back of the car, and route the front turbo intake pipe away from the engine you will always struggle to achieve cooler pre IC temps.

    The same thing with the cold side boost piping. The rear is routed over the engine pre IC. If the engine was put in correctly, then everything (intake and cold side pipes) could be toward the front and away from heat.
     
  16. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales Supporting Member

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    neat idea, but unfortunately no performance benefits. Heat rises when there is no airflow, that's just physics. As soon as you start going again, air temps drop as the moving ambient temp is not only cooling the engine bay but also forcing more air into the system into the little heat pumps that you have mounted to your engine.
     
  17. SuperPete

    SuperPete SHO Member

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    So you are saying there is no difference if your engine takes in 60F air vs 120F air?
    Why do we need intercooler then if there is no performance benefits to air temperature?
    Or how meth injection benefit by dramatically cooling air?
     
  18. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales Supporting Member

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    because you are pushing the air through a turbocharger that is generating nearly 1100*F temperatures under normal operation, the air going into the turbo is negligible. what you want to cool is the air coming out of the turbo, which is where nitrous, meth and an intercooler come into play.

    When the car is moving, you are drawing in ambient air as long as you aren't cooking your intake. You'll never get below ambient temps without chemical charging, and even if you stuck a hairdryer in the filter opening to put 120*F air into the system you won't see a difference post turbo.

    I've done extensive testing with multiple intakes - stock, Airaid, and now the EPP. I was one of the first to do the "pool noodle" mod to the Airaid to help it's heat soak issue, but even then IAT2 was not affected.
     
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  19. SM105K

    SM105K Stand Bye To Get Some!

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    Lee is correct. On a street car with intake tubes and an air filter, it is really hard to keep those tubes cool because they are bombarded by heat.

    There is a reason why most racecars have some type of ram air directly to the compressor of the turbo.
     
  20. SM105K

    SM105K Stand Bye To Get Some!

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    Pretty sure the best (but not optimum) bet for our platform to combat heat soak would be a single 90 degree bend directly off the turbo facing down and away from the engine with air filters. That would help with heat soak because of the minimal length in material. You might get some colder air from the bottom side too. However, you run the risk of water and other goodies getting into the compressor side of the turbos.
     
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