V8 noises

Discussion in 'V8 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Zap, Mar 19, 2009.

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  1. Zap

    Zap SHO Member

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    I'm looking at a nicely priced GenIII and I was curious if the engine sometimes has a tinny upper end noise (haven't heard in person, yet) if that is a pending or slipped cam sprocket type noise? They told me that it goes away when its warm.

    How safe would it be to drive the car for a few hours to a shop so a weld could be done? They say the engine runs really well right now, but if I'd purchase the car I know I'd want the cams welded... It's just a really good price and it's not too far away. :omgsho:

    Any thoughts? I'm only seasoned with my knowledge of the V6 MTX....

    Also, does anyone know if Performance Plus still does cam welds? or another competent shop in the SE Wisconsin area?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  2. DaSho97

    DaSho97 Former Owner

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    Sounds like the cams are about to go, Id have AAA tow it to your shop. Wouldnt want to risk blowing the engine on the way there.
     
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  3. Izzmo

    Izzmo SHO Enthusiast

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    Yeah, I agreed with DaSho, you might as well spend the extra couple hundred bucks to to tow it (or ship it) rather than risk the cam failure and being screwed.
     
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  4. Zap

    Zap SHO Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions - I was already thinking I should probably just pay for a tow because I'd be screwed if it let go after driving it off the lot.

    Is there a way to tell if damage has already occurred or if the engine runs just fine, should it be okay as long as the cams get welded ASAP?

    I presume any competent welder will check to make sure the sprocket hasn't slipped and realign it before welding?
     
  5. Izzmo

    Izzmo SHO Enthusiast

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    Well, in my experience, if the sprocket has slipped, you need to put it back into it's original position before welding.

    But, if it's slipped and the chains seems straight (as it did in my rear cams), then just weld it in place. Mine has been fine since.

    If the engine still runs and it's making that sound, it's most likely a cam just moving back and forth. To put it back in it's right place, all you need to do is take out the chain tensioner's from within the valve cover housing and just slide them back into position.
     
  6. Zap

    Zap SHO Member

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    The car is a '97 with about 115k on the clock. With this funny noise, do you have an opinion of what it should be worth? They are aware that this noise is an issue and its listed as a mechanic's special, and asking about $2k. Haven't tried to see if they would take a lower offer yet.
     
  7. Izzmo

    Izzmo SHO Enthusiast

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    When I bought my Red SHO, it ran but it had the same noise as what you are probably talking about. I never ran it long enough to see if it would stop after the engine warmed up either. (Too afraid too really)

    But I got it for $1,400 all said and done.

    I think it really comes down to how much the person selling it knows about the car and the cam failure issues.

    With the economy like it is and it being a V8, you could probably pull it off for even lower.
     
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  8. mustangracer91

    mustangracer91 "Super Dave"

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    +1, I'd mention to them that you're positive that it's the cam issue, and that you're going to have to tow it and spend 800 bucks to weld the cams, etc...and I'd pull out a wad of 1200 cash and see if they bite...if they don't, kinda do the "c'mon, work with me" line and see what they say...just sell them on the fact that it's gonna be expensive, and it WILL have to be towed and fixed ASAP.

    Also, another thing, I'm sure any welder can weld the cams up, however I feel that you should really have someone/or a shop who is trained/experienced in welding these cams up do it for ya, or maybe swap you with a set that is already welded, because balance and weld quality is highly important...you're average joe welder might weld it up strong, but might not use the right strength/heat range/materials, and could weaken the cam...besides, if us board members don't support the SHO community when we have chances like this to, then there won't be a SHO community in the future to support.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
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  9. JoesSHO

    JoesSHO New Member

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    I agree- help the community for sure-

    However, the SHO community should be willing to allow some new camwelders to take foot in uncovered parts of the country. I had a buddy call one of the 'reputable shops' to see if they could assist in picking out the correct materials for welds so he could practice a few cams and then start welding in SE lower Michigan for a significant forum discount. It was a full race shop near the old Wixom plant... Of course, nothing got shared, he was pissed that they wouldn't even talk, and now he wants no part of it. Real nice.

    I do know one good community camwelder that talked to a buddy and helped him out with what to get and he welded his own cams and did a damn good job too. Too bad we can't put saving the cars (which seems to be everyone's line) over the argument that you should have to drive half way across the US to get it done. Not everyone can do that.

    To the reputable shops on the forum- c'mon, work with these guys.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  10. Zap

    Zap SHO Member

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    Yeah, I was planning on taking it to one of two recommend people from the V8SHO.com list of cam welders. We'll see what ends up happening if I get a chance to look at it Saturday. Thankfully it could be worse, at least its only a few hours drive each way.

    It's really a shame that there isn't here in town, though. That makes the tow and the travel a lot more of a hassle...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  11. SHO U UP

    SHO U UP SHO Guru

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    If there is any doubt, go and tow it. But, the injectors do make a ticking noise also, right near the front valve cover. I don't recall reading where you mentioned what it sounded like, but that's a possibillity. If no one knows what they are listening for though, get that thing safely to a shop. Don't become a statistic. Good luck with it
     
  12. St Louis SHO

    St Louis SHO Rollin' coal Staff Member Club Mod

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    I'll come pick it up and deliver it back to you if you wish.

    - James
     
  13. St Louis SHO

    St Louis SHO Rollin' coal Staff Member Club Mod

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    Now thats a bullshit statement. Do you know how much goes into a REAL camweld? I do. It's not worth sharing, because even if you do, half the people wont listen. Then you have to realize those people will say, since I welded my cams the way xxx said to, I now have a pile of broken shit sitting in my driveway. Wake up. There are people who can listen and do it right, but 95% of people out there wont. Do you want that riding on your conscience? I know I dont. I was tought by the best. I'll never share a thing because of my reasoning above.

    How many of you agree?


    - James
     
  14. Mr Anonymous

    Mr Anonymous Tire Wall

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    Not sure what exactly you're talking about, or who this "full race shop" is. Personally, I would rather take my car to a guy working out of his home garage than some "full race shop" if the home guy has more knowledge/experience welding V8 SHO cams.

    It's like the guy who buys a used car from a "long time Ford mechanic" and finds out later that the car was one of the worst maintained in history. Empty platitudes and titles like "full race shop" or "master pro welder" or anything else are meaningless until that persons work and reputation are out there for others to judge WRT welding V8 cams.

    There isn't exactly a lack of cam welding services in the country, and there is no central "authority" who decides who is and who isn't "allowed" to be a cam welder. Despite what the nincompoops over at camfailure.com or whatever the hell that stupid website is called may think of themselves, they are not the be all and end all of all things V8 SHO. Successful people and shops welding cams have been vetted BY THE COMMUNITY, and those that do a good job for a good price and STAND BEHIND THEIR WORK have long been identified and built a strong reputation.
     
  15. JoesSHO

    JoesSHO New Member

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    Sorry guys, but the bullshit is holding the knowledge to your vest and keeping it sacred like it's friggin' nuclear knowledge. I have zero against most people in this circle, but I get upset when a buddy from Iowa calls someone on the east coast for help because he wants to do what everyone says, and their only answer is to bring the car to New England. That's the bullshit- not my comments.

    You guys started somewhere, and I know I'll never convince anyone that the guys I was working with are more competent than any SHO shops on the eastern half of the US, but years of building, prepping and racing NMRA circuit cars a hell of a lot more powerful than these cars is a pretty f'n good start for me. Sorry we don't all have the ability to bring our shit to let you guys work on.

    The problem is that if you're not already IN the camweld 'community' you can't become part OF the 'community'

    Say what you think- I could care less- everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I think calling my opinion bullshit is as bullshit as holding info from people because you're worried that they might mess up their car. It happens every day- read forum, print instructions, f*** up car. Move on. That's how you learn. But, it seems that's ok here, but camwelds? No way- I don't want that on my conscience. Bullshit.

    Flame on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  16. St Louis SHO

    St Louis SHO Rollin' coal Staff Member Club Mod

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    Dont need to. Thanks for playing.
     
  17. JoesSHO

    JoesSHO New Member

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    Exactly my point, thanks for the illustration.
     
  18. Izzmo

    Izzmo SHO Enthusiast

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    If I may put my 2 cents in...

    I think you all are overdoing this whole thing. You all make it seems like CAM welding is something no one can do except some one that has changed on over a thousand cars. Well, I am here to tell you that anyone who thinks that is dead wrong.

    I got my cams welded from a local shop in place for $45. I think cleaned out my intake multiple times since then and looked at the cams to see if they were fine everytime and they look as good as they day they were welded.

    As long as someone has adequate knowledge of welding to various surfaces and how to do it properly, welding the came sprockets in place (with the cams still in the car) should not be that hard of a job. (TIG welding of course though).

    I understand the reputation factor with some people only wanting to go to someone who has enough experience, but if everyone was like that, then this so called "welding community" will cease to exist very soon. I don't think that will happen.

    Honestly, I think $700 is a far stretch for doing the work necessary, but if someone wants it "done right" and wants to travel to get there, then so be it. But if he has an eagerness and the ability to use a wrench to get off some bolts for the intake, I think he could do the cleaning himself, and save himself hundreds of dollars in the process.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  19. mustangracer91

    mustangracer91 "Super Dave"

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    I'M NOT SAYING THIS TO BE ARGUEMENTATIVE...this is just my reasons why I chose to have a trained individual do it for me...and I've welded alot of crap over the years...it's not about will it fail in a week, month or year, it's about how long are you going to drive or own the car. As the cam spins at a pretty high rpm for it's entire operating range, it's not a question IF it can be welded, it's what residual effects of an incorrectly welded cam can do to the cam bearing surfaces and wear points from that. As I stated before if the wrong flux is used or the wrong intensity is used, it can and will have a negative effect on the strength of the cam end...it'd kinda suck to try to weld the end of a cam back on. I've seen pesos used to fix broken pistons before, so just about anything can be welded...however it's just as you said "done right" if you're running around town and not planning long road trips w/it, you might never have a problem....or you might be broken down on the side of the road on the way to a meet. Do you think that they just picked up a welder and just slapped any old stick in it and gobbed away? no, of course not, it's their experiences with trial and error that you're paying for.
     
  20. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

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    Basically, the above is correct. There is no 'secret' knowledge involved here. Any good quality welding shop can do this job. The advantage of going to people that have already done it is simply that they go in with experience in the disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly, plus background on what other useful things might be looked for in this particular area while all that is happening and fixed at the same time. And you then pay for that by having to go to those particular people and pay their fee, whatever it is. But past that, there is nothing being held close to chest by any shop about this anywhere. It is a weld job where you have to be careful, but that is all. The posts from JoeSHO are flailing at air as their target simply does not exist, except, perhaps, in his mind.

    pax, smn
     
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