Ugh...hopefully not engine failure...

Discussion in 'Generation 4 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Ecoboost_xsport, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    So I'm burning tons of oil...

    Hazy when driving but dumps very large cloud of burnt oil when getting off boost. And after it gets pretty hot, just dumps clouds of white burning smoke while idling. I feel no loss of power, no strange idling or audible difference.



    yeah...

    Anyway, I've been through a few different opinions of what it might be:

    1) PCV/Catch Can setup (crankcase pressure issue)
    2) Turbo seals failed
    3) Piston ring/valve seal failure
    4) Possibly lifted a head in high boost

    Just would like some additional input on what it might be. Currently, it's looking like engine issue (piston ring, etc) as it looks like serious blow-by. But here are the symptoms and want to bounce ideas off everyone's head.

    1) emptied catch can, was only about 1/4 full.
    2) checked catch cans check valves (UPR kit), they are functioning properly. PCV valve is new. Also tested with old one, same issues.
    3) checked catch can routing, properly routed. Keep in mind I've had this arrangement for over a year with no changes made.
    4) pulled downpipes off, tons of oil on the exhaust/turbine side of both turbos
    5) spotless and clean on compressor side of both turbos
    6) no oil in turbo outlet tubes into CAC
    7) there is quite a bit of oil right in front of the TB plate and into the intake manifold. Weird that its dry before the CAC but drenched afterwards.
    8) pulled spark plugs on front bank (4,5,6) and spark plug wells are bone dry, but plugs tips themselves on 4 and 5 are drenched in oil. 6 is only a bit wet.
    9) still need to pull plugs from rear bank
    10) still need to perform compression and leak down test (gotta grab my tools from work on Monday)
    11) checked all turbo drain tubes for obstructions, but found none.
    12) no oil in coolant
    13) no coolant in oil
    14) catch can is now filling up QUICK

    I am leaning toward a ring or valve seal failure but would that put oil BEFORE the TB plate? If a turbo seal went bad, would it push oil back into the cylinders? I image it would be wet post-turbo, but not pre-turbo. If I lifted a head and stretched headbolts, I imagine I'd see coolant in the oil or vice versa... I am just trying to gather some opinions over the weekend for me to chew on as I can't do compression or leak down until next week when I grab my tools.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  2. 802SHO

    802SHO Built not Bought

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    Have you checked for oil in the intercooler? No oil pre IC, but oil post IC.
     
  3. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    No not yet, but not sure how it would get there if there is no oil pre-IC
     
  4. 802SHO

    802SHO Built not Bought

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    Idk but why is it post IC? Just thinking out loud
     
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  5. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    So I was told by someone else that I really shouldn't have any vacuum at all when the engine is at idle and oil cap off, but when I ran it at idle and take off my oil cap, I have a lot of suction, it pulls my hand onto it pretty strongly.

    Can any of you try this out and tell me how much vacuum you have on your oil fill with cap off and at idle?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  6. rubydist

    rubydist SHO Master Staff Member Super Moderators

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    The vacuum there at idle should be almost not noticeable. Sounds like the pcv system is not working right.
     
  7. RoketRdr

    RoketRdr SHO Member

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    What he said. If you have a strong vacuum at idle there's a serious restriction in your evac system. Pull the rear plugs and do a compression test on all cylinders just for peace of mind, but I strongly suspect you're going to end up finding a restriction in the PCV system. To address your four thoughts on possible causes...1) PCV is highly suspect. I've experienced this very issue on a 1000hp diesel and changing out a hose fixed the issue. 2) The odds of both turbos blowing their seals simultaneously is extremely low. Possible but not likely. It would also take an extremely high level of boost. 3) Piston ring/valve seal failure will cause the same smoking issue but not heavy vacuum on the clean side. 4) If you lifted a head there would be several other tell-tale signs and your truck would like like shit. Like you said, water in oil and/or oil in water as well as bubbling and pressure in your coolant reservoir.
     
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  8. yaycandy

    yaycandy SHO Member

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    Cut to the chase, compression test it. The most important test and you dont got your tools. Maybe buy one at autozone on a loaner and return then.

    My engine is about 14 vacuum at idle and goes to 0 then to 18 boost when flooring it, run fine. Dosnt burn a drop of oil. When my cylinder was gone. At idle with the oil cap off it had alot of blow by.
    Yes ecoboost 3.5l has the same vacuum at idle as the 3.5l N/A. Most turbo cars have high vacuum at idle till they hit 0, which is the atmosphere pressure. I did a mod i got around 10 vacuum cruising. Got real good mpg. Till i stomped it and my mod shot off
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  9. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    So was posting this issue up on F150 ecoboost pages..different platform, yes, but has much more traffic, so picking their brain too.

    Interesting point was brought up and to hit @RoketRdr point...it may in fact be catch can setup.

    https://www.f150ecoboost.net/threads/crankcase-ventilation-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly.82610/

    So I have the UPR dual valve setup, but some have speculated that this may be an issue with larger turbos. Simply capping off the cleanside port and going single valve could fix the issue.

    Anyone else have a UPR kit with the dual valve setup that could confirm this? Do you have more vacuum at idle with this kit?

    I'm just trying to nail this down because if it is an issue with the PCV system, then what changed? It was running fine before and now it is suddenly smoking. This is what is making me think it's a ring failure, even though symptoms point to crankcase pressure issue. Other than lines from catch can and PCV valve, am I missing checking something?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  10. 802SHO

    802SHO Built not Bought

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    I can’t do any tests at this time but I have the UPR Dual Valve catch can. I almost immediately ordered and swapped out their check valve for a high pressure check valve....bc with the supplied check valve there’s potential for the contents of the can to get sucked back into the engine under high boost. FWIW.

    edit: this is what the rep from UPR told me. Even if this isn’t the issue...probably a good idea to do it if someone hasn’t already. 0C585ECD-341B-4E84-AA48-04EBB46272EE.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  11. sperold

    sperold Last to Know Supporting Member

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    White smoke usually means coolant, blue smoke usually means oil, true black smoke usually means gas.

    Do you have to add coolant?
     
  12. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    No, coolant levels are fine.

    ....its DEFINITELY burning oil...
     
  13. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    Hmmm, I was never educated on their higher flow check valves, but is possible this could be happening.

    EDIT: now that I think about it, I think I have their larger ones. I've seen their older kits with small check valves....unless the one I am adding to this is not their larger one...
    [​IMG]
     
  14. 802SHO

    802SHO Built not Bought

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    I’d have to dig it out of some tots, but that looks like the upgraded one. The one that comes standard has one arrow on one side and UPR on the other. image.jpg image.jpg
     
  15. Ecoboost_xsport

    Ecoboost_xsport SHO Member

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    Yeah, looks like I have their larger ones already...

    BUT GEEZUZ!!! You want some coffee with that milk? LOL
     
  16. 802SHO

    802SHO Built not Bought

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    Lol I don’t drink it cowboy style. Honestly that’s two K cups and a tiny bit of half and half.....I’ll do a caffeine overdose challenge any day of the week. I train for it everyday lol
     
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  17. RoketRdr

    RoketRdr SHO Member

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    I just went and read that thread with great horror. The member Srpracing is posting a TON of incorrect information. But yes, when you start making more boost and higher HP the stock PCV system will not be adequate. If you're 100% positive that your PCV system is free flowing and hasn't developed a restriction, the next obvious issue is the rings. A quick and easy test would be to disconnect the PCV line from the rear valve cover and see if the smoke stops.
     
  18. Honz24

    Honz24 Member

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    I had a similar issue, unplugged the connector on the Pcv valve and left it open, started driving and it cleared up in minutes... my catch can was the problem. I took the catch can off. My issue was that the catch can line was frozen somewhere.
     
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  19. Honz24

    Honz24 Member

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    I also had a decent amount of oil in the intercooler after this. I should also add, that on my 2016 I tried venting the clean side to atmosphere and capping it and I had a check engine light in a couple days... since remote start doesnt work with a cel I scrapped that idea.
     
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  20. skyshadow07

    skyshadow07 On a mission to get below 4000lbs

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    interested in what the fix is. Hope your car is alright, it is one of my favorites on here.
     
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