Showagon motor rebuild (not) success, 3.2 manual in 88 Wagon LX

Discussion in 'Gen 1 & 2 - Engine, Exhaust, Drive Line & AC syste' started by chrism3784, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    Is it possible is just honed to much?
     

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  2. sperold

    sperold Last to Know

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    What was your piston to wall clearance when you re-assembled?
    Did you use cast or forged pistons in your rebuild.
    Any rings go on upside down. Not so much the compression ring but the scraper.
    How about the gap staggering? Was it 180?
    Did you have to file any of the rings to get the correct end gap?

    forgive the questions, but we have to ask.

    Only you know if it was over - honed.

    I would stick with the oil angle. Don't use high mileage oil, get some conventional, non synthetic oil, and then do the acceleration events that Rubydist recommends. Doing it now is a waste of time.

    Good luck, my bet is on the oil choice, if all of the questions get answered correctly.
     
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  3. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    No problem, ask away. Original pistons used. Didnt check piston to wall, i put rings in according to the paper included with the DNJ rings. Scraper? You mean the dual oil rings? They didnt have a top or bottom that i knew of.
    I checked the ring gap with ring inside cylinder and was within spec, but only checked 2 and assumed rest were identical. Staggered 180, even 2 oil rings.
    Far as overhoning, did the same honing to my 3.8 sable motor, doesnt burn a drop. I did a 3.0 sho motor 6 years ago with half the honing, no oil burning. Maybe to much honing with that motor?
    Ill put conventional oil in and do the 2000 to redline 10 times thing and see what that does. Besides oil burning, drives very strong and is very good on gas.
     
  4. sperold

    sperold Last to Know

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    You probably still have the old rings, so take a look to see if the 2nd ring has a bevel on one side, in the area where it touches the bore; or has a series of small zeros on one side.
    .Not sure if all manufacturers do it that way. If you followed the instructions from the ring manufacturer, it should have mentioned if there was a preference in position.

    Sometimes, the ring lands are too wide and you have to shim them with spacers, but I think we can forget that one as it is really rare..

    It is nice to know the wall clearance, but you really have to work at it to remove .001" through honing, unless you have a really aggressive hone with really coarse stones.

    I have had .005" clearance on an engine with forged pistons, which grow, and it never used oil, so I think you are OK.

    Everything sounds reasonable enough. Check with the ring people to make sure they did not miss an instruction sheet in your kit.

    Do the oil change.

    Again, good luck.
     
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  5. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    I tossed the old rings. From what i remember there was no bevel on either ring. But in the ring kit i bought had a top and bottom kit and i believe the insructions called for the bevel to face down. I did. Ill try changing oil to conventional and 2000 to redline 10 times. If it stops and rings seat, think i could go back to synthetic?
     
  6. sperold

    sperold Last to Know

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    Sure can. But wait a while for the break in to be complete with the conventional oil.

    I think these rings are low-tension cast units, so maybe the low tension means a bit more time for everything to seat.
     
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  7. rubydist

    rubydist Moderator Staff Member

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    no, you want cheap conventional oil. The maxlife stuff has "boosted wear protection" which is the opposite of what you want for the first 1000 miles when you are breaking in the rings. Once you get the rings seated, that would be fine.
     
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  8. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    I'm past 2000 miles already. But as rule of thumb, always break in sho motor with conventional?
     
  9. rubydist

    rubydist Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, always break in any "new" engine with conventional oil.
     
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  10. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    Never stopped burning oil. Finally took the motor apart and sure as shit, burning in every cylinder. This was after about 4000 miles give or take. I was hoping was maybe just one cylinder and it be a leaking valve stem seal, no, burning through the rings. Is their any other rings out their other then the shitty DNJ ones? Or am I stuck with those? Wish their was sealed power, never had this issue.

    I'm guessing I didn't break it in properly, I took it very easy at first, you all told me was the wrong way. Maybe it was the honing? I did it the same way I did any other engine. is still looks honed but is pretty smooth to the touch and about 4000 miles on it.
     

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  11. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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  12. rubydist

    rubydist Moderator Staff Member

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    You did not hone it too much. However, I don't like how flat (horizontal) the hone marks are. You want them to be between 30* and 45* off horizontal. So, I will suggest you hone it a little more but with a slightly different technique - either use a drill with a slower speed, or move up and down faster, so that you get the marks at a 30-45* angle.

    With the flat angle of the hone marks, the oil gets trapped on the cylinder wall and not wiped down, so it ends up getting burned. With the proper angle, it leaves behind a much smaller film so way less gets burned.

    Put it together with new rings from whoever - its not their fault it wasn't done right.

    Do not do a bunch of idling with it when you get it back in the car. As soon as possible (as soon as you have verified it has no leaks, etc.) take it out and drive it hard as described earlier.
     
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  13. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    Will do!! When I honed this, was the end of my honers life anyways, is why a few scratches in it. I'll get a decent one from harbor freight. I'll now be honing it inside the car, so may be more difficult so I'll need the drill to go slower.


    Looked up that part number and found these!!
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-96-19...h=item214929337e:g:EMEAAOSw0wtatt0e:rk:2:pf:0
     
  14. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    Cool. Those look like the ones I purchased several years ago.
     
  15. chrism3784

    chrism3784 SHO Member

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    Found them $123 plus free shipping on amazon. But only lists it as hastings pistons rings 2C4881, with a few pics and does not say what car its to. I'll take my chances, long as right part number.

    So between a to flat hone, not breaking in properly, and with synthetic oil, no wonder it burned. Never was going to stop. I kept driving it for a while to smooth the cylinder walls a bit for rehone, and also in hopes it would stop burning. Other then the burning, not a fucking drop of oil leaked from that case, to bad, now I have to put the oil pan up from under the car with shit in the way and hope I do it right, I hate pan gaskets that only use sealant and rubber lips.
     
  16. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    That link in my previous post has all manner of part numbers and other info in the thread.
     
  17. zoomlater

    zoomlater SHO Member

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    What head gasket are you going use?
     

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