SHO Sales Value

Discussion in 'Generation 4 - General Discusson' started by bpopilek, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. bpopilek

    bpopilek Member

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    So just under a year ago, I picked up my 2010 SHO for around $9000. Since then I’ve put far too much money into repairs and maintenance that wasn’t done to the vehicle prior to me buying it. Now I am considering selling it for either a newer SHO or something completely different. What’s frustrating is when I bought the car last year, Kelley blue book said that the value of the vehicle was between $9000-$11,000. When I look at private party value today, for a vehicle that is in very good condition, it says that the standard private party value is only $6328. This is an average between $5174 and $7481.

    What is the most frustrating, is that I have spent over $3000 in repairs and upgrades on the car since buying it. I have replaced or added all of the following:

    New driver door power lock
    Front suspension
    Both drive shafts and seals/hardware
    All 4 O2 sensors
    Front slotted rotors and ceramic brake pads
    Both front brake calipers
    Tie rod ends, stabilizer links, lower control arms/bushings
    New aftermarket rims (Original were bent)
    Installed Ford genuine remote starter
    Windows tinted
    LMS Tune and tuner
    4 Wheel alignment

    And, as some on these forums know, I just rebuilt both turbos and have all new gaskets on everything down there as well as new oil lines.

    To add insult to injury, I now need to get 4 new tires for it! One developed a large hole the other day, and with the tread being so little left, I don't want something unsafe on the car by trying to just get a plug.

    I guess I’m looking for a little advice as to a fair market value price that I could ask for the car. Trade-in would only get me $5500 at most, so that's not a great option. Especially if I put new tires on it! Do I just throw on 2 tires and sell it, or replace all 4? Any benefit to spending any more on it? I'm losing money no matter what, I just want to quit spending it on a car that isn't worth it. And I realize that the kbb values aren't taking any of the repairs or upgrades into consideration. Any thoughts and ideas are welcomed!


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  2. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member Supporting Member

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    How many miles on your SHO? Are you making payments? Would you be making payments on a newer (or new) vehicle? Generally, the best used car is the one currently in your driveway. If you have confidence in your work, then the one major repair possibly on the horizon is the timing chain/coolant pump.
     
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  3. bpd1151

    bpd1151 Lurking Around

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    Look at this way.....

    You'll be having to perform similar repairs on any other vehicle, as most of your items in your list, generally speaking, are maintenance related issues.

    Regardless of which path you choose, any/all other vehicles, depreciate to.

    For me, I've always looked at my own personal level of enjoyment out of any car I've owned.

    For instance, I love piloting my 2001 Ford Taurus SE as a daily driver. It's so low tech, and lacking in creature comforts, that it is just plain refreshing to not have so much $h!t bleeping, chiming, and bonging at you, that one can actually enjoy the ride.

    Just look at the push for autonomous, self driving vehicles in development, or looming very near. Bull crap.

    Driving should be left to driving. Not having a computer do it for you. Or worse yet, have the Government, or some 3rd party, contracted vendor operating on behalf of the Government to shut your car down, or limit speed, etc.

    I still invest (and yes it's an investment) in maintenance stuff. Even though I'll never recoup that from the perceived value of the car.

    Value is what you place in it.

    I value my 2010 SHO for what it is. Or rather what it has morphed into. No one here, or anywhere else you proceed/ask/seek input in, or advice upon, can assign your 'x' value to your car, or current conundrum.

    SHOdded stated it best, when he said sometimes your best value, is the one sitting in your driveway.

    Treat her well. Enjoy her. Ultimately your own gut instinct will guide you and when the time comes for you to part ways with it, you'll know. If you're asking for guidance, you'll regret getting rid of it.

    As I've seen so many others spell out how they got rid of theirs, and wished only later, that they had not done so.

    Good luck in your quandary. The struggle is real as they say.



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  4. StealBlueSho

    StealBlueSho BJSHO

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    99% of cars are never a “good” investment from a financial standpoint. You will never “recoup” the money you put into a car, just not how it works.


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  5. Raging Bull

    Raging Bull SHO Member

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    After all that you’ve done to the car it should last u for sometime I would keep it until it doesn’t run anymore. Cause when u get rid of that and the next one comes open your wallet because that one will need repairs as well. And nothing is getting cheaper these days we all no that. We as customers always lose on the dealership car industry end of things . The car business is what I call Organized crime !
     
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  6. sperold

    sperold Last to Know Supporting Member

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    Keep it.

    You have $12,000 in it, and it is serving you well for not a ton of money.

    Rebuild the 2 turbos, change the waterpump and the front chain, all in one shot with the engine lowered out the bottom for ease and the lowest cost.

    They all look alike, so it will be like having a 2019 for around $15,000 total cost.

    I see, from re reading your original post, that you already have rebuilt turbos, so the quest for trouble free ownership involves the pump and front chain renewal, so get some great new tires and some cosmetics as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  7. PaulTAutoX

    PaulTAutoX Member

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    Like others said, this isn't an investment, it's a car. And a performance model, to boot. **coughDepreciates faster cough**

    "When you didn't get what you expected, what you got was experience!"

    Tires are a given, if the tread was nearly gone then it was time for them anyway, that is the BEST time to get a blowout. Have had two sets where the tires were nearly new and one or more were ruined by road hazards. Plus you have the AWD issue where the tires should be fairly close in tread depth (= circumference) for best results. A car with mismatched tires looks like a ghetto wagon, IMO. New tires will NOT pay off in full value but they will make the car sell faster to a higher class crowd, again a choice to make. In the meantime, you'll be driving safer.

    If the car has had all of that work, a knowledgeable buyer will appreciate that it has been done RECENTLY and you should get some of that cost back, KBB be damned. But repairs will never pay back dollar for dollar, and now you know to look at a car's documented maintenance history before buying it. That is a lesson that most of have learned the hard way. :( So you get new treads, get it detailed, have all of the maintenance history handy, and don't just list it on Craigslist, get on enthusiast forums, spread it around. Ask for top KBB plus a thou and be prepared to bargain down.
    Or you do it the easy way and get low dollar as a trade-in, call it lesson learned. Your choice!
    Good luck.
     
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  8. jtreber

    jtreber SHO Member

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    On point
     
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  9. bpopilek

    bpopilek Member

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    I appreciate all of the insights and views. I'm still on the fence about what to do. Like I said, I do like the car, I'm just tired of having to wrench on my daily drivers. My Yukon has a custom built 6.0 LS installed in it, and then with the issues I've had with the SHO, it seems that I'm always working on one or the other. I'm almost to the point in life that, even though I can work on my own stuff, I'm ready for warranty repairs to be handled by the dealership.

    What other items typically go wrong with the SHO? I know I should replace the timing chain and water pump if I'm going to end up keeping it. Anything else that needs to be done? I am worried about the transmission too. It's always shifted fine, but the fluid was pitch black initially when I started working on her. I've drained it twice and refilled it with fresh fluid to try and clean it up. Should it be so dark with only 140,000 miles on it, or is that a sign of things to come? To keep it, I need it 100% dependable. Thanks again!


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  10. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member Supporting Member

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    Mercon LV does tend to "brown" quickly, so color is not a good indicator of condition. But if the fluid was original, it had TOO many miles in it. Every 50-60k is the target for normal operaring conditions from mile 0, no matter what Ford says. I assume you fully changed out the fluid at the last service?
     
  11. jman1200

    jman1200 SHO Member

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    A lot of the money you put into it was because you wanted to, not because the vehicle needed it so take that out of the equation. i.e. tuner, tint, remote starter, etc.
    Some other could be grouped into what I call the "to be safe", "just in case", i.e. I don't think all 4 O2 sensors were bad, right? Did you really need to change so many parts of the suspension or were there parts that could have lasted one or two more years? So take those also out of the equation.
    Now, how many of the parts that were really bad and did need replacement could have been noticed at the time you purchased it and could have helped bring down the sale price? Those are on you.

    At this time you might be hating me, don't. Not trying to upset you but to paint an unbiased picture of what the vehicle has really asked for.

    The market value of a vehicle is based on it being in good working condition with normal wear and tear for its age. The repairs you do (needed or not) will not increase its value, it will just make it easier to sell and the buyer most likely will pay a price on the upper end of the range.

    If I am ever at a situation where a needed repair costs 80% or more of the market value of the vehicle or if I see that I am spending too much per year in random repairs, then I might consider replacing it. I don't think you are there yet.

    Can you easily find a 2010-2012 SHO with brand new front suspension, drive shafts, O2 sensors, brakes and turbos for $6-8k? Most likely not. So, unless you want a newer vehicle it doesn't make sense (to me) to sell it.

    Buying a used car is a lottery and you never know what's going to happen. I have been very lucky (and happy) with the vehicles I bought used, currently own a Mazda 6 that owes me nothing, my SHO although it's paid for, still owes me a year before I consider it fully depreciated. On the other had, I bought a new Pathfinder that gave me more headaches than any other used/high mileage vehicles I've ever had so buying a vehicle that is still covered by the factory warranty doesn't mean you'll be hassle-free even if you are not paying for the repairs.
     
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  12. ridered74

    ridered74 SHO Member

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    The tax alone on any different car you buy will be a lot more than a set of tires unless you live in one of the few states with no sales tax. I agree with the consensus, you should probably stick with the devil you know.
     
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  13. bpopilek

    bpopilek Member

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    Not counting what is in the torque converter, I have drained the pan twice so far and replaced it with brand new fluid both times. It has lightened up considerably, but it could probably use at least one more drain and fill to get it looking like it should.

    Is there any concern that the new fluid and any detergents will cause possible transmission issues? I had an Oldsmobile Silhouette a long time ago that had similarly black fluid, and after a flush and fill it started slipping. I ended up having to replace the transmission as a result.

    You're 100% correct on the add ons being a want and not a need, and I didn't really figure them into the equation. The tuner/tune can be removed and I could sell that to someone else at a discounted price or use it on a new car. The rest were for convenience or aesthetics. The factory remote starter only cost me about $35 and the time to install it.

    I did have actual codes for all of the O2 sensors, minus one downstream one that I chose to replace at the same time because it was cheap. Of course the check engine light for these didn't come on until about 2 weeks after buying the car. I initially only had a code for one of them. However, after replacing each one, I would end up with a code for the next one. This happened until they were all new.

    Regarding the suspension, tie rods, lower control arm bushings, and half shafts, they were all bad. I knew it needed struts when I bought it, the rest was found as I got down underneath and started to replace them. Also both front brake calipers were damaged and had to be replaced. I don't recall at this moment what the actual issue was with them, only that I replaced them because they had to be for function and safety. These in turn warped the rotors, so they too were replaced along with the new pads.

    Regarding the tires, I did know they would probably last a year or 2 at most when I bought the car. The rims were replaced because Belle Tire said I had a bent rim. Since the factory ones were all chipped up and because I couldn't locate a single matching rim, I got all 4 aftermarket rims. Looking back, I think they pulled a fast one. I've had multiple issues with Belle over the last year. Needless to say, they've lost me as a customer.

    Lastly, the turbos took a dump out of the blue. One had a snapped shaft and was completely destroyed. The other was not far behind and had some damage to the fins. Luckily the rebuild kit I found on EBay worked beautifully and I was able to repair it all for a fraction of the cost a dealer would have charged me. However, that meant the car was down for about 2 months while I waited for parts and the time to work on it.

    For all of my repairs, I have not tried to go the cheap way out, and I did what was best to keep the car safe and dependable. It's just frustrating because I've never had this many unforeseen issues with any other used car. And my biggest fear is something major is going to go bad in the engine or transmission. I'm just really tired of wrenching on this and not being able to just drive and enjoy it. Like I said before, I'm just getting to a point in life where I want to not have to work on my daily driver all the time or at all.

    At the time, the car was valued at $11,000 and they were asking $10,000. For the struts and other possible repairs, we agreed to a final price of $9,000. So I did get some knocked off, but apparently not enough. They also told me they had replaced one of the turbos. This was either a lie, or they installed a used one.

    [QUOTE ="jman1200, post: 1508270, member: 32050"]At this time you might be hating me, don't. Not trying to upset you but to paint an unbiased picture of what the vehicle has really asked for. [/QUOTE]

    Not at all! I appreciate your views and comments, along with everyone else's input. I know buying a car isn't an investment to make money on, but I was kind of surprised at the big drop in value in less than 1 years time. I've never had a car in the past that depreciated in value that much. Then to throw in the fact that I've spent $2,000+ on needed repairs and it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

    You're right that if I looked at buying a SHO solely using KBB values, I'd never find one with all of these new parts. Hence why my initial question was trying to come up with a reasonable price to list it for, taking market value and the repairs into account.

    I've always been a GM car buyer until now, and I am far more familiar with their engines and what not. The ecoboost is completely new to me, and I wonder how dependable they are as they get higher and higher miles on them. I'm currently at 142,000 miles on my SHO. My biggest concern about keeping it at this point is what can I expect to go bad next? What preventative measures do I take and what is the cost for parts?

    Thanks again for all of the input!


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  14. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member Supporting Member

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    All good questions. Blackened fluid is never a good sign, but the question is: did you examine for grittiness/presence of debris. If it cleared that test, although transmission life may be reduced, it should still have a lot of life left. I would definitely plan on doing the TSS/OSS sensors and the solenoid body filter sooner than later, as a preventive measure. 4 hours of work, easily within your skillset, and under $200 in parts. Do at least 2-3 more drain and fills, spacing them out, as you gauge the transmission's response to the fluid changes. RETAIN the old fluid, do not throw it away, at least till a few months have passed since the final D/F.

    Longevity - these engines do require you to run full synthetic oil, good quality fuel, spark plugs, coolant, etc. If you have a borescope, use it to keep track of intake valve condition. Keeping them clean with regular cleaning is a very good idea. BUT since there are already 140K on the odo, let the borescope be the guide.
     
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  15. jman1200

    jman1200 SHO Member

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    Help me understand. Wouldn't the transmission act funny if these sensors go bad? I mean, why would you spend money replacing something that can easily detected if it fails?
     
  16. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, there would be indications. As I noted, this is a preemptive measure, and the payoff is well worth it because in this process, you get access to all the control components of the transmission - bathed in transmission fluid. So if there is debris or varnish building up, you can shortcircuit the degradation process. It is up to the OP to decide whether or not to do it. But it is far cheaper than ordering a remanned transmission, or even installing a used transmission with unknown history.
     
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  17. Bill Knudsen

    Bill Knudsen New Member

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    As a fellow owner of a 2010 SHO, I find those Kelley blue book values extremely disappointing. I guess I will hang on to mine for a very long time. Only 73k miles and not a scratch on it. Stored in the winter. Absolutely no issues so far. Have seen as good as 29 mpg on the highway at 5 mph over posted limit. Quiet, comfortable, powerful...
    But will probably go with a Challenger RT or SRT 8 next time around based on resale value.
     
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  18. jman1200

    jman1200 SHO Member

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    Are those two sensors mounted outside the transmission?
    I understand that if you open it and find debris, there would be little you can do besides cleaning it out, right? Debris will indicate wear, too much would mean a lot of wear. If you remove the transmission to replace one or two worn items, most likely you are going to replace a bunch of other parts so if it's running wouldn't you just keep using it until it fails, spend the same amount of money later or if you are lucky, it holds up?
    What can you do about varnish build up?
    I've always been the type of person to not fix what it is not broken and I try not to mess up with things that I can break in the process. As far of tranny preventive maintenance all I've ever done is oil changes every 100k km (60k miles), same for differential and transfer case fluids. With the SHO I plan to do it more often based on what I've read here.
    I totally agree that if this helps prevent a failure or more expensive repair, I should do it. Just want to understand what can be done if those are detected during a visual inspection of the tranny's guts.
     
  19. Lostneye

    Lostneye SHO Member

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    It has been expressed several times that Mercon LV gets dark very quick compared to older formulas and is not a good indicator of fluid health.

    Changing the fluid leading to trans issues is an old wives tale that came about because most people do not keep up with much maintenance besides oil changes so by the time they want to change the fluid it's because there is already an issue.
     
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  20. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member Supporting Member

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