No start with a new starter... (Neutral switch/TRS)

Discussion in 'V8 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by GEN 3 SHO FAN, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

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    I took the car to fuel it yesterday at night and when it came time to quit, no start. Only fuel pump charging.

    I was lost for some minutes, the car has a new starter since 3 months and a good battery. Fuel system was completely revised/replaced in the last years.

    And then I remembered that my SLO did the exact same thing (passed 155 k) with the same revised/replaced parts some years ago.

    I called my mechanic and he was enough kind to explain me what to do (rather than offer me a towing). :) The neutral safety switch on the trans (also called trans. range sensor) can stop to send the signal that the car is in Park position which will give the O.K. to ECM to start the engine.

    Here is the steps:
    1) Turn key to ON position
    2) Put a feet on the brake
    3) Put shifter in Neutral
    4) Start the car

    My SLO had this trouble at 155k and the SHO begun to have this trouble at 144K. Could be a part of a 135k maintenance schedule.

    With their venerable age, it could be a good thing to keep spare one (new or coming from a low mileage SLO with a floor shifter).

    On the same subject
    https://shoforum.com/index.php?thre...wrong-part-hard-shifting.135564/#post-1473851

    On the return (a little bit proud to not be in a towing truck), I passed in a curve a Mercedes SLS and I decided to let it heard a little growl beside it. The guy seems offended to be passed by an ugly '90 smaller displacement car and tried to keep his advance, but he was in curve... It was a good night. (Beautiful car by the way.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  2. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    Nice tip. I second keeping one on hand. I recall having the issue of mine randomly going from D to OD and that's a bit of a problem at 75mph...
     
  3. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

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    I gone to scrapyard thinking it will be an easy job to find one. Not that easy, all Taurus I found (1996 to 2007) had the other switch even with those having a floor shifter... I checked the Windstars which had the same trans, same thing... :(
     
  4. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    Some of those Mercedes are 4 cylinders. If it was the 6, he just didn't know how to drive it...

    Isn't the Range Selector the same as any AX4N? If you can't find it on a Taurus, don't rule out the Lincolns...
     
  5. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

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    It's more complicated than I thought, when I checked my inventory for a spare Neutral safety switch, I realized that I have 2 differents... One with 8 thooths and one with 11. (The good one for a SHO is 11). These 2 were different from almost all the ones I seen in scrapyard. All the ones I seen on Taurus (00-07) and Windstar (don't take time watch year) have 10 pins (the only 96 Taurus I found had the 8 pins).

    10 pins
    10 pins (00-07).jpg

    According on what I can see on Rockauto, the 11 pins switch, was only put on Taurus/Sable from 1996 to 2000. The change seems to occur during 2000 year because Rockauto offers 10 and 11 pins switch for this year. Now, from what I have seen, I have to find a Taurus /Sable from 96 to 2000 with a floor shifter and a low mileage...

    11 pins
    11 pins (96-00).jpg

    Note also that Ford didn't though to change the plug... D marks are different. On Lincoln, as they are all Rear wheel drive the shifter cable isn't joining the trans in the same direction and the switch is probably different. And I just can't see the switch on them, it,s probably somewhere under the dash. (Rockauto list them also for Conti 96-97...)

    For the Mercedes SLS, it's a very special car, it's like german Dodge Viper, a big powered rear wheel drive car with a front engine. I tried one in a Need for speed game and you have to watch the curves.
    V8, 6,2L DOCH, 570 hp (some had a supercharge IIRC)
    0-60 mph in 3.9 sec.
    (I passed it in a 2 lanes way (dry) with no other car near, side by side. I didn't passed him dangerously using the reverse side. Once on the highway in straight line, he joined me very, very easily and there is some traffic to watch too.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  6. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    There are front wheel drive versions of the Continental. They share the AX4N, but have a beefed torque converter for the extra power. I believe it only came with the Intrax DOHC engine and I think were only between '97-99.

    I had a Merc pass me with ease with my foot to floor and even had some distance. Actually was more impressive than most of the Camero's and Mustangs around here...

    My 3.5L MKz is no doubt faster off the line than most, purely due to its six speed transmission, but as I understand it would be slower than our SHO in the 1/4 mile. Never mind its speedo tops out at 120mph.
     
  7. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

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    I saw a Continental from 99 (front wheel drive) but it has the 10 pins switch.

    I found some others Taurus and I can say the change (11 pins to 10 pins switches) occurs before 04/2000 (or before VIN 1FALP5xxx207000)

    A little bit hard to find used by these days.
     
  8. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    Odd. The AllData references both connectors, but one for the AX4S vs one for AX4N.
     
  9. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    I have an odd problem with my Rosemist and the TRS. I can not get it to line up in ALL positions at the same time.

    I can adjust it to start but then it kind of 'half-selects' the gears. I can get the gears to line up on the shifts and get the trans to behave, but then I get a no start condition.

    I tried 3 different TRS's with similar results. Maybe my linkage is bent or the transmission shaft the switch sits on is bent?

    Anyhow, for the last year I said screw it. I put a push button on the starter relay and left the TRS in the position which favors correct gear selection. Want to start the car? Put the key in 'Start' and push the red button.

    :)
     
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  10. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

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    And look, you are in fashion too, with a start button and all. :)

    pax, smn
     
  11. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

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    I didn't realise until today that your starting problem can be linked to this part... In fact, it could be.

    I will probably mention things you already know Eric as you are a veteran here but it may be usefull for others owners.

    1) The blue part (plastic use as a gasket/joint) at the end of the arm mounted on the switch can fail or become loose over time. With this loose, the cable will not completely put the arm in the correct position (and then no start).

    2) If the arm is misplaced (for any reasons), the trouble will stay even with a new switch because the switch will "adopt" the incorrect positioning of the old one (determined by the cable lenght and internal trans shaft under the switch (sorry I don't know the real name of this part).

    Normally, when this switch fails, it will lost "P" signal as its the most used (friction on electrical contact of some kind). But if the switch is misplaced, you will lost many positions signal and my trick will not works in this situation ("N" signal could not works too).

    3) To correct #2, I think we can adjust the positionning of the switch by the 2 mounting holes bolting it on the trans. They are slotted permitting some play (see photos). I never tried this myself, someone with no mechanical knowledge could makes the prob bigger. There is a mark on the switch (and a tool IIRC) also to position the parts correctly. Correcting the slight angle could resolve a prob like yours. (I'm not sure at 100% its your problem, but symtom will be very similar.)

    Hope it can help,
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019

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