Miscellaneous intake/cooling/fuel questions

Discussion in 'V8 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by 98SF19, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    Not sure what you mean by using IMRCs from other motors - do the others use the same style of connector? Operate from the same signal? Designed to pull at least the same amount of travel as the SHO? As for the dims of the wheel, I was really just wanting to see how involved it would be to replace the plastic flywheel inside with aluminum. My first one had the cable pop, the second one's plastic wheel disintegrated. In both cases, it seems the internal motor was up to the task of overcoming the secondary port build-up, but nobody else inside was (cable or wheel). Use of con/catch can should keep any normal IMRC in working order for a quite a while though. Yes, please send pics of what you have. Thanks!
     
  2. GEN 3 SHO FAN

    GEN 3 SHO FAN SHO Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    116
    Occupation:
    Classified
    Location:
    Canada
    I never made a switch but the internal is the same. If you search a gear to repair yours, can find one in them at least. Same plug and same plastic connector at the end of cable too (spares). Mustangs of the same years with 4.6L had it too but I never found one to see how it was made. Your idea to replace them by metal part isn't bad though.
     
  3. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    263
    Occupation:
    No Idea
    Location:
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    My secondaries have been wired open for well over a decade now, getting closer to two, and when I open things up they are always still clean. I think the best advice is what Paul Nimtz gave ages ago. Drive it like you stole it all the time. The car simply likes it and rewards you.

    pax, smn
     
    SHOdded and 99sho-time like this.
  4. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    . . . or live in a place with low humidity and run a CAI in a non-DD vehicle. o_O

    Whatcha guys think of this approach for cleaning secondary ports - I've already done a scrubbing with old toothbrush using carb cleaner (sprayed onto brush, not into ports) so there shouldn't be much left to chunk off. But I plan to run clear tube down into bottom of each port with a shop vac on other end. Will start vac and hit ports with carb cleaner a bit, leaving vac on for a few seconds.

    Also, I had a couple of the injector connector push clips pop off years ago when changing valve cover gaskets. Taking them off this time, all remaining clips broke right off. I suppose this is normal? Any history of this being an issue (IE coming loose while driving)?

    I may be just a weakling, but that fuel rail isn't going anywhere. I know I said I was going to leave it alone, but wanted to clean down deeper. Looking at the angles that the injectors are sitting at, it's hard to imagine that it's even supposed to just pop off. I can see why the o-rings are at risk from doing that.
     
  5. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't wanna flood the cylinders with cleaner and muck because youl end up having to pull all the spark plugs and flood mode it even if you try to vacuum it all out. The best way in my opinion to clean the butterfly's is to take it all off. give the valley of the engine and nice cleaning inspect those knock sensor connectors they get real brittle. Those cometic gasket on the LIM are re usable just clean them very very well.

    Theres no harm imo giving a nice little touch of penetrating oil on all those injector O-rings. Cant be afraid to pry the fuel rail off just be easy and consistent.
    Putting it back on, just make sure all the injectors are lined up and in the fuel rail then start pushing it down methodically.

    your doing a big job cause its sho.

    as far as the injector connectors i have been driving with a few broken that were on my new harness its okay but better safe than sorry just solder some new ones in.
     
  6. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    I'm in the process of taking an alternative route . . . I said Eff you to the damn fuel rail and now I plan on disconnecting fuel lines (when $7 kit from Amazon comes in that has the round tang releasers for fuel lines). Any issues with going this route? To clarify, I'm leaving the fuel rail on injectors (on LIM) along with pressure regulator and connected hoses. I already have the LIM loose from the block and . . . DZAMN!! The area down near the valves is CRAZY dirty. I actually saw what looked like white stuff too. WTH??? I know the deeper down I go, the less likely I'll get a nice normal start after reassembly. But hey, this has needed doing for a while now, and if I plan on keeping car much longer, it's gotta be done. I noticed on each butterfly plate there are 2 Philipps head screws. Perhaps removing these along with the plates is what is meant by "drilling out" secondaries? Removing shafts altogether would be nice, but requires perhaps more extra work than it's worth. Primary ports already have the shaft going through per original design.

    Injector connectors - letting them ride for now.
     
  7. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    Man it's great working on the SHO when it's nice and cool outside . . .
    Butterfly plates (8) and shafts (4) are out. Shaft holes filled with JB Weld putty (between primary/secondary port pairs). It was actually kinda easy, but I'd be happy to make a post with pics on how I went about it if anybody wants . . . Nimz had it right many years ago, though he didn't go into a how-to here: https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/butterfly-valves-bored-out.111892/#post-1211060

    Re: cleaning down to the valves - Nimz had that one right too. Best way to go about it is with a few cans of carb/intake cleaner spray, a +/- 6" long narrow paint brush with long stiff bristles, a few rolls of paper towels and shop towels, and your fingers. Between this and LIM, I've run through about 4 cans, and I'll probably run another 1/2 can on a final cleaning of valves before starting reassembly.

    Once intakes put back together, it's onto jerry-rigging the catch can. <Sigh> . . .
     
  8. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't say i enjoyed cleaning my valves it was a pita and the fact that you can't clean the exhaust valves makes me nervous about causing weight differences.
     
  9. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    LOL. The enjoyable part I was referring to was performing surgery on the LIM. It was a joyous moment when, looking down at the bottom face just after having removed the plates, I realized that the shafts didn't need to be cut up, they just slid right out once springs were unhooked from the LIM block. Had to pull out the W clips that hold each pair together, but overall, it was a pleasant surprise.
     
  10. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    I'm getting lost with all my simmering threads . . .

    Can someone provide the torque spec for LIM? I'm not worried about the upper intake horns, but as the LIM was on there good when I removed it, I want to be sure it's nearly as secure as before but don't want to break any bolts.
    I found this post:
    https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/torque-specs.53932/
    but not sure if it's talking about the same thing (retaining bolts and bracket bolts?) and also, it's from the Gen 1/2 section.

    EDIT:
    Found it here:
    http://v8sho.com/SHO/allspecs.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    Ok . . . so I'm moving my rant back here as new power steering pressure hose is on.
    I've come a long way since the first post of this thread: replaced hoses and plastic wye fitting on return coolant lines, removed butterfly plates and shafts from LIM, thoroughly cleaned LIM, cleaned intake ports and valves, cleaned up PS pump, got new PS pressure hose (paid the pros for that one), and I THOUGHT I'd resolved the miss on #3 with a good COP. I even put a dab of dielectric grease on the coilled contacts of all COPs. Well, I now have a miss that gets busy even when car has only begun warming up, but really gets going when car is warmed up. It occurs at all throttle positions, though I've only stalled once and that was while backing into parking space at work. The irony is that having a miss was the whole reason I decided to dig into the motor in the first place. It was retarded on my part not to replace rear bank with 4 new OEM Visteons (currently $20 a pop on Alanisdeals!) or to replace plugs. At Aamco today for trans warranty annual check, and their scan device could not detect which cylinder was having the problem. Planning on going by dealer tomorrow morning with the hope that they can at least tell me which ones are causing the problems.

    BTW - I did the catch can. Made videos of what I did and will probably Youtube it later.

    Also, it seems like the facebook page for Gen3's is quite a bit more active than here.
     
  12. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    I would target those coils then. assuming everything else is in check. check for vacuum leaks on the LIM and everywhere. I dont care much for dielectric grease.
    The car doesn't have the capabilities to say which cylinder its misfiring on mode 6 will only tell you which bank.
    coils do that to when they get hot and they are bad they can misfire. I had a coil that would misfire like once every few revolutions.

    if it were a Huge vacuum leak that is enough to cause a misfire the car would be stalling alot more.
    what are the fuel trims at cold idle?
     
  13. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    Took dirty girl to a dealer Saturday morning and got a call just now. The techs were able to diagnose the misses (#'s 6, 7, & 8!!!) but didn't want to go any further considering the IMRC was gone. SERIOUSLY?! The whippersnappers saw something was out of place and said NO MAS. The old timer that had worked on it before recently retired, which I only learned after dropping the car off the other day. One of the things I'd wanted was a compression test and check of O2 sensors, but I suppose with 3 cans misfiring, there's really no point. Any silver lining? Yes - they're not charging me a penny, and I still got the misses identified!
     
    99sho-time likes this.
  14. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    dang that's alot of misfiring cylinders. It's always nice to catch break every once and a while with our cars.
     
  15. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    263
    Occupation:
    No Idea
    Location:
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Interesting. Time to just wire it open and see if that fixes anything, I guess. I admit to a bit of doubt, though.

    pax, smn
     
  16. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    My Quixotic posting style has caused pieces to be left out of this thread . . .
    LIM had the butterfly plates and shafts removed as part of recent work.
     

    Attached Files:

    SHOdded likes this.
  17. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    263
    Occupation:
    No Idea
    Location:
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Ah, I misunderstood. Sorry. I read it as they were claiming the IMBC was causing the problem, and I thought that conclusion highly unlikely.

    pax, smn
     
    98SF19 likes this.
  18. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Barstow, CA
    Did you try swapping the coils from the cylinders that are working with those that are having troubles? It least that could tell you if the coils are the problem. Also double check your plugs in case there are any gap problems. I usually torque them at ~14lbs.
    If there are leaks from the work you did, you may be able to validate that with spraying Carb Cleaner near the old butterfly rail holes. That could at least affect #8.
    Miss-firing could also be caused by the fuel injectors not putting out enough fuel or too much. So swapping those with the good cylinders is the next step (a little more work as you know...).
     
  19. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    I'd swapped some up front before tearing in, and all seemed well. However, this was when I had been told by a shop that it was #3, a rear bank coil, that was the issue.

    This afternoon, I started her up and gave it a few minutes. Disconnected each of the front bank coils individually but didn't notice much of a difference at first with only one disconnected. HOWEVER, I confirmed that all 4 are good, at least from a cold start, by disconnecting #5, then also #6 - drop in rpms is then obvious. Reconnected #5 and the rpms go back up --> #5 is good at that point (un-warmed-up motor). Then with #6 still disconnected, I unhooked #7 - another clear drop in rpm. Plugged #6 in and rpms go back up --> #6 is good. Did the same with 7 & 8 (used #5 as the secondary unplug for #8). Plugging #5 back in, I did notice a slight uptick in speed.

    I think my plan now is to just get the 8 damn coils and plugs in and reassemble. If I still have issues, is it fair to say it's gotta be the injectors? If so, I'll have the pros do that, though I guess it would be a great opportunity to get a feel for the work. I'll just bring them the LIM with fuel rail attached and they can put in the elbow grease.

    QUESTION:
    I had a thought while driving into work earlier - is the signal to the coils too sensitive to splice in a disconnect to those on the rear bank? It's easy to disconnect the front while motors running, but not the rears. I just thought it would be nice to have the ability to disconnect the rears on the fly for diagnosis, probably crimped quick connects with some dielectric grease.
     
  20. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    Civil Design
    Location:
    Florida
    Forgot to add . . .
    While messing with the car earlier, I got down and unscrewed the drain plug from my catch can setup. Got at least an ounce and a half of thin, somewhat clear fluid. It was a very welcome site. At that rate, driving it 1-2 days a week, I'll have to drain it twice a month or so.

    Still haven't uploaded vids . . .
     

Share This Page

If you wish to help keep SHOforum running, please click the donation button below