Methanol Injection questions

Discussion in 'Generation 4 - Performance Upgrades' started by toms89, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. toms89

    toms89 Member

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    I have a question for those primarily running 100% methanol. I realize tunes will vary but want to take in as much information as I can about it.

    At what boost does your system begin injecting?
    What size meth nozzle?
    Power increase or E.T difference using meth?
    Other mods and tuner?
     
  2. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales

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    Each of those questions is a multi-layered answer, and rely heavily on what other modifications, kit brand, etc. I'll try to cover as much as I can, and provide some follow up questions where I need more information to assist:

    At what boost does your system begin injecting?
    * Depends on the kit, if it's a single stage kit we start spraying at 10 psi, if dual stage we start a partial spray at 7 psi and a full spray at 13 psi.
    What size meth nozzle?
    * Depends on your power level and the kit. For example, the Snow kit at 450hp and 10-15 psi recommends the #5 nozzle (375 ml/min); the AEM kit with the same specs recommends a 500 ml/min nozzle.
    Power increase or E.T difference using meth?
    * We've seen a car that runs 12.8s with a tune and cai jump to 12.2s on methanol. It provides around a 40hp bump in power.
    Other mods and tuner?
    * Completely up to you. We have had great success with our methanol tunes and our customers love our tunes and support in general. Mods can be as mild or as wild as you want, I've seen anywhere from a completely bone stock no tune running meth for lower IATs all the way up to FBO aftermarket turbos running it as a secondary fuel source.

    Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions. We are a supplier for most SHO aftermarket parts and also offer our own tuning solution, so let us know if we can help you reach your goals.
     
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  3. BayAreaSHO

    BayAreaSHO Member

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    I am seriously considering running Methanol in the very near future. Any recommendations on the best kit for the money? Also any serious supporting mods you need to run meth?
     
  4. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales

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    I personally have had the best luck with the Devil's Own 3 bar kit. It seems to have the best components and not much more than the Chinese big box companies (AEM, Snow, etc.) Snow is good if you upgrade to the Braided lines with AN fittings, the push lock that the basic kit comes with is prone to leaking and not fun.

    And as far as supporting mods, there really isn't anything special you need. The EPP noisemaker delete can be ordered with a meth bung that saves the hassle of getting the nozzle epoxied into the noisemaker at the proper orientation. Other than that any basic power pack that comes with a 2.5 or 3 bar map sensor will be fine to give you the power boost to go along with it.
     
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  5. toms89

    toms89 Member

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    I was asking because I purchased an Alky injection kit from Livernois along with getting a new tune for the meth. I felt basically no noticeable improvement in the seat of the pants although it did feel different. Took it the track and pretty much confirmed what I felt. This was with the controller set up exactly as it came. (turn on and slope) So I tweaked the settings in the controller (backed off turn on and decreased the slope) and it feels like it is waking up.

    It comes with a single 15m nozzle. I just installed an edge insight and if the readings are accurate it begins injecting at about 2psi of boost, this after I tweaked it. This seems too early to be injecting to me but do not know what the tune is set up for. Hoping to get an answer soon from LMS as to what boost it should begin injecting.

    So I am curious as to what some other set ups are and results. Thanks for your reply.
     
  6. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales

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    2 psi is definitely too low, you dont want to spray when brake boosting or cruising partial throttle.
     
  7. SM105K

    SM105K Land Yacht Pilot Supporting Member

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    Your problem is LMS.
     
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  8. 76FoMoCo

    76FoMoCo SHO Member

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    the Alky kit is a nice set up and has a good controller. when I was running the lms tune it was using a M15 nozzle and this is way too much meth. Now with the ajp tune I'm running a m5 and making 45 more HP (do have dyno sheets for each). the m5 is going to flow closer to the other 2 kits fiveleeter918 pointed out. My 93 three bar tune and my 93 with meth tune are .4 apart on the 1/4 mile ET done on the same day same track 15 minutes apart.
     
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  9. b4black

    b4black Member

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    Remember, methanol is a fuel and too much fuel can hurt power (as in very low AFRs). The methanol cools the charge to reduce knock - same can be done with injecting water. Simply adding methanol won't help, especially is the engine was not seeing any knock retard. Adding methanol gets rid of the KR and allows for greater timing/boost (which is why it comes with a canned tune).

    So what I'm saying is when running methanol, you are juggling AFR, knock retard/timing, and boost. You have to optimize all three to realize the benefits. Record runs and see where you are at. You might just be smothering you engine with fuel.
     
  10. BayAreaSHO

    BayAreaSHO Member

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    Brad is the guy! Gonna be going meth with him for my next mod


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. toms89

    toms89 Member

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    Basically everybody is confirming what I already know. It is likely running way too fat with the given tune negating any benefits. How much it may pick up with the given tune by reducing the amount of meth being injected remains to be seen. It sounds like dataloging knock retard is the best way to do this safely. If I monitor short term fuel trims what should be the target reading? If it is negative the computer is taking away fuel because it is too rich ?? Positive numbers it is adding fuel?? If so I would assume you want to decrease the amount of meth if the numbers are reading negative. Since meth has a different stoich than gas and your mixing the two does this effect what the readings should be?

    I am leaning towards another tuner based on what I am hearing.
    Recommendations and contact numbers or info?

    I appreciate all the replies. Gives me a little more insight.
     
  12. High on Ethanol

    High on Ethanol SHO Member

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    I highly recommend GearHead tuning, as well as AJPTurbo if he is taking any new customers.
    I have tunes from multiple tuners and by far Gearhead is the most thorough tune, but I'd say Brad is better at squeezing max potential from your car if you race. Brad is also top notch at answering questions. When I am flashlight drag racing I use Brad's tune, the rest of the time I run GearHead tune.
     
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  13. toms89

    toms89 Member

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    Ok I have heard good things about both Brad (AJPTurbo?) and GearHead. I found GearHead tuning online but have not been able to find AJPTurbo. Who is and/or how do I contact Brad? Sorry... I have not been following this forum.
     
  14. 76FoMoCo

    76FoMoCo SHO Member

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    <[email protected]> he only does this part time and has been a little hard to get a hold of as of late. You will need a SCT device to work with him and GH. the LMS tuner you have will only work with their tunes.
     
  15. High on Ethanol

    High on Ethanol SHO Member

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    I recommend the livewire SCT tuner. The SCT X4 looks like an abacus and lacks display size and options. AJPTurbo is his name on the forums. I originally started with unleashed, then ajp, then GearHead. Unleashed was super fast at revisions but my car shifted super hard and didn't feel right in sport mode. AJPTurbo felt better but still shifted hard especially past halfthrottle at lowspeeds. But Ajp E30 tune made my tires shred on hard launches and increased my stoplight win rate. I then switched to GearHead E30 and was amazed by the crisp shifting and blown away by the superb downshifting. The power was noticeably lower at low speed but higher at high speed. I ran the car over 140mph a few times and was still pulling decent.
    Sorry for the long post but that's my experiences with tuners for the SHO
     
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  16. 76FoMoCo

    76FoMoCo SHO Member

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    I would spend the money again and get the livewire TS!
     
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  17. BayAreaSHO

    BayAreaSHO Member

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    I concur, I have a livewire and you can read all the current data of the car from it with a touch screen and fully customizable layouts for data display. Also holds up to 10 tunes i believe
     
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  18. b4black

    b4black Member

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    Don't monitor STFT. You can watch LTFT. Positive is adding more fuel and negative is taking away, but the end result is running at stoich. Fuels trims are just the corrections needed to get to stoich, you aren't actually running rich or lean.

    At WOT the engine is no longer being commanded to run at stoich. It's set to run rich (power enrichment) to suppress knock. Stay away from using the gasoline scale of 14.7 for stoich. Go with lambda numbers; stoich =1 and is the same for all fuels. I believe my current tune has the WOT AFR at lambda =0.80
     
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  19. FiveLeeter918

    FiveLeeter918 Ortiz Performance Sales

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    While I'd agree there's not much need to monitor STFTs real time, they do have their place aid greatly when diagnosing potential vacuum leaks.

    We have the Livewire TS in stock, I typically log Boost (psi), Spark Advance V2, Fuel Rear Pressure, Turbo WGDC, Trans temp and LTFT bank 1
     
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