Keep getting p0302 code

Discussion in 'Generation 4 - General Discusson' started by Curtis McNaughton, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Yea. Not to bash them or anything but they say they got all this expierence on that platform but cant help me with this. Ill just see what ford says. If they say valve bent or anything. Ill just take head off and get it rebuilt. At least that valve. Have it pressure tested also
     
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  2. SM105K

    SM105K SHO Member

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    Hopefully it is as "easy" as that, and can save you some coin.
     
  3. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member

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    Just not very hopeful on partially rebuilt Ecoboost engines TBH. But maybe in general terms, Livernois can give us some direction on that. Are they worth repairing piecemeal or simply delay the inevitable?
     
  4. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Thats my thing. Id rather have a new longblock. Complete then spending time and money to repair one head then it will eventually happen to the other side. Not to mention the increased wear my engine already has for it to have a bad cylinder. F150 ecoboost videos of the torture test. They couldnt hurt it but i found a way to
     
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  5. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Ill just fill the tank up with some good cleaners for exhaust valves and all and do the ole italian tuneup to her. I got a appointment for ford for next week. Might as well do i can to fix valves..
     
  6. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    what? I thought you were looking at a new longblock? Why mess with the valves now? If they only do a shortblock then they should be able to get in there and clean anything proper.
     
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  7. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Ford dealer where i live gets too busy. i got appointment for next week. I got some 112 octane from my buddy and running it through the car. Man is this thing lightning on 5 cylinders. Seems to be running better. I was hoping on exhaust valves to be caked up also where they seat
     
  8. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Dang. This thing is quicker on 5 cylinders then it was with 6 cylinders. Unless my Vbox lies. Probly as quick as with a meth tune haha
     
  9. Johnbigdog

    Johnbigdog SHO Member

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    Well think about this. You ask for technical repair direction from a company that deals with tuning/performance modification. You have a technical question about their product or process they got you covered. This is about your particular failure and nothing to do with their product.

    Diagnosing an engine performance concern over the web is most likely not their cup of tea. Especially for the person you are contacting? You didn't post your question or the whole conversation. Youre down to a base engine fault. You know what the problem is. Youre asking an outside company to say what the root cause is without inspection. They say, oh yeah it's the coneuter valve, you replace it and it doesn't fix it. Now you bash that company for their recommendation. What they don't know is you didn't tell them x, or test y right to lead somewhere else.

    They don't know you or your ability. Don't bash them for playing it safe. If you want them to diagnose it, bring it to their shop. This threaf may reflect your relationship with this company in the future.

    I don't work for LMS. I have none of their parts or tunes. Just thinkimg out loud. If I was a business that provided a service and you bashed me, I wouldn't be so nice to help, but i would take your money.
     
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  10. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    This^^^

    I read these posts and learn new important stuff that wasn't stated up front. Like- bought it at auction and reason to believe without maintenance done on the thing since new, changed oil at 10k intervals, there's lots of yada yada poor maintenance that keeps popping up. Who knows what's really what until you open it up.
     
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  11. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Im sure i stated that i wasnt bashing them
     
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  12. SHOdded

    SHOdded SHO Member

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    I didn't think you were. Just that we all expect this info for free, but being a business, they gotta protect themselves :) Once they get to know you and your SHO, it is a different ballgame.
     
  13. 6500rpm

    6500rpm Quality Always Shoots Straight

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    I just skimmed the last few pages. Your compression on the effected cylinder is crap. Johnbigdog hit the nail on the head with "the next step is a compression leak down test". Absolute must unless you like throwing thousand dollar bills at a fairy tale. A leak down test will isolate your problem-air leak heard in the induction side=intake valve issue. Air heard leaking out the exhaust= exhaust valve issue. Air heard leaking inside engine/at open oil cap=problem with the rings/piston. The difference is the cost of pulling the head and fixing it vs cost of tearing down the block or replacing it. A good tech always does the homework first before throwing parts at a problem. The picture of the plug coupled with the description of it dripping with oil tends to make me believe piston/rings but you need the leak down test on that cylinder.
    Another thing (not particularly about your car) is the fascination with valve coking on these engines. If someone can explain it to me please do. On old port injected engines it was a issue since the fuel was sprayed at the valve and much of it would be absorbed/condensed on the crap built up on the back of the valve and cause mostly cold engine/idle quality issues. Our 3.5L is Direct Injected so in my mind the only thing moving past the intake valve is air (forced induction air) and it really shouldn't have a huge effect in my mind.
    Back to this vehicle, the fact that you had so much oil inside the induction system and coked on the valves also leads me to believe that it could be piston/ring related causing an excessive amount of blow by.
    Keep posting, I'm really interested and you've almost got it isolated. The leak down test on that cylinder will reveal your answer-if it was improperly tuned before you bought it, that piston may have also spark knocked itself to death (read, a good look with a quality bore scope).
     
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  14. Johnbigdog

    Johnbigdog SHO Member

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    The short of the carbon build up is there is no spray to keep the valves clean. Pcv gasses are sticking to the valve burning/ drying up and not getting cleaned off by the fuel addatives. It's a problem with any G.D.I. engine and not just Ford. The solution is dual injection (port and direct). It has other benifits too. Reportedly better driveability on cold start and fuel economy. I read it as a easier way to add fuel with boost.

    Can p.f.i. get dirty valves, but it's not as bad. I guess I contribute it to poor fuel and possibly poor operation habits. Like not getting up to temp all the time.

    He can do a cylinder leak down, but he did a manual compression test and then added some oil. The pressure didn't change. Unless the piston/rings/wall is really fubared it points twords a head.

    Past experience with misfire at idle points to the head. He could have a faulted intake valve which is allowing oil to be consumed and the black/fouled plug. But with 60 psi you're probably not burning well. My experience with 2 smokes is if there isn't a spark/burn, the plug gets bad really bad quick.

    A new engine will fix it, just depends on what Curtis wants to spend.
     
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  15. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    A good friend of mine know the owner of a performance shop in harrisburg pa. He does his own machineing and custom engines and all. Im taking the car over to him next week sometime. He has expierence on the 3.5l ecoboost engines. So i can trust him to look at it and give me a good deal to figure out and fix this issue. Plus maybe push the car further. He has an awd dyno and builds custom transmissions and told me he built a sho to over 900awhp with engine and transmission upgrades and it got down under 10 seconds on the quarter mile. I didnt see it though so no clue if its real or just a story. Either way i trust him to look at my car over a ford tech who would rather just drop a new engine in
     
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  16. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    I can do a leakdown test. Id just have to get a leakdown kit or whatever they call it these days. Ive never done that type of test but im sure i could figure it out. Does it matter where the piston is at? Tdc or down or dont matter? And im guessing both valves have to be closed? Oh well duh :smash:. I answer my own questions haha. If its at Tdc the valves should be closed. I could do a test on it but i already have the car getting figured by someone next week. Maybe i may have to test it myself.
    Im half asleep still also
    I notice the car backfired alot when i drove it the other day. Maybe exhaust valve is sticking. Lots of boomy backfire pops when i downshift and slow up. Sounds cool but probly burnt that valve. Ill just hook a valve to a rope and ill be the exhaust valve while driving
     
  17. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    Im not sure on how accurate a leakdown test could be now that my brain is on. Most people dont realise that a piston ring is ment to leak a certain amount. In aerospace we do light tests on piston rings and any types of sealing rings. And a 3inch diameter pistonring may call for up to 10% light or even 30 percent light in automotive. Which you would figure by taking the diameter times pi at 3.14 and would give you the circumfrence and your allowed 10 percent of your circumfrence to allow pressure and light through. You are going to have pressure loss at the pistonrings anyway but how much or how little. I have no clue. If it blows oil or the oil cap off, its probly has too much of a gap in it. I would have to ask people on leakage testing rigs how much pressure drop is allowed for automotive rings to still be "in spec".
    Pistons rings are controlled pressure leaks and Turbo engine would leak alot more so id find out the type of piston rings installed in the engine. Find the end clearence of the joint and radius of the joint and find the company that makes the rings and find out what their light allowance is and find out exactly how much pressure is ment to be lost. To have a more accurate reading

    Sorry guys im an engineer and overthink everything to the max
     
  18. Johnbigdog

    Johnbigdog SHO Member

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    You are looking for a leak over 20% and specifically where the leak is coming from so that area can be inspected further.

    Go sleep off your turkey coma
     
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  19. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    I dropped the car off at Dons performance corner in harrisburg pa today.
     
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  20. Curtis McNaughton

    Curtis McNaughton SHO Member

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    They got everything. Engine dyno. Chassis dyno. Cnc and manual machining for heads and blocks. Engine assembly. Huge place. Good to know people sometimes haha
     
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