Discussion in 'Generation 4 - Performance Upgrades' started by steve142857, Jul 3, 2011.
LOL! Wow, I stand corrected.
I mean how come we have fighting over who can make a simple two-point trans mount but no one is working with anyone for a carbon hood, trunk, fenders.. etc.
I did see a vendor who makes a hood for our car. I asked him how much and he stated $2600 for fiberglass. That is hwy robbery.
You just answered your own question. It is a niche market. We are a very small community within a community the aftermarket does give a rip about. How many modified Taurus are out there besides our SHO's? NONE! lol. The SHO's only saving grace is, it shares the EB 3.5 with other platforms and the aftermarket for those are bigger.
The SHO is a cool platform. It is holds it own stock, and is quick (into the high 11's with bolt ons) modified. That is where the buck stops. There are only a handful that want to go faster. Going into the high tens and beyond takes alot of money, and modifications ect.
If you want to go fast, build something lighter, or make significantly more power with the SHO to overcome the weight. However, you are limited by the SHO 3.5, trans, and RDU. They can only take some much HP before they fail. Usually it is the trans first. Once my SHO touches 11's I am done. It will be an 11 second sleeper and I will be able to drive it anywhere with very little worries.
I do want to go faster in a sedan however. So I am looking to buy my buddies IS 300 that has a 2JZ GTE and 67 mm turbo with a six speed. It is literally a 4 door Supra. It is lighter, has a way stronger drivetrain along with a power plant that can make massive hp. On 9 psi it made 440/560. He has it tuned for our crap 91 octane here. On E85 we can crank up the boost and it will make 700+ and that is just stretching its legs.
The SHO is awesome, I love mine, but is not the car to try to go fast with.
Not sure how you fully connected weight reduction to going insanely fast, limited trans ability etc. Step away from 1/4mi time, weight management does so much more than that. And again, like I called out before. You guys think weight reduction means a full-on racecar. You can replace a part with a lighter piece and not lose comfort.
It's 2019 and small-batch or one-off custom stuff is cheaper than ever before. A few things we should bother machine shops, vendors, manufactures about off the top of my head would be
-light weight driveshaft
-Sunroof carbon plug
-various body panels in carbon
Honestly, I'll just start attempting it and we can all reap the reward.
I know what I am talking about. The parts aren't there. It's a Taurus...not an EVO or any other tuner community you came from. By all means procure and have those things off the top of your head developed, produced, and tested. There will still only be a handful of people that will be interested if that.
There isn't a light weight driveshaft. Spend a couple grand and develop one.
There isn't a titanium exhaust. Spend a couple grand and have one built.
Pull your sunroof out....cool.
Spend a couple grand for carbon panels, plus the cost of prep and paint.
Everything you posted right there will cost at least 5k coming out of your pocket, for what 300 lbs if that? 5 k for 3 tenths and less comfort isn't worth it.
This platform has been around for almost a decade. There is a reason why there are not parts that you are looking for. The small -batch or one off custom stuff you want isn't cheaper. You got a hood quoted to you for $2600.
You are on the wrong platform.
I think from a cost/benefit perspective, it is only a very few selected people's cup of tea to go all out with lightweight replacements. That's the problem. If you could manage to get a group buy together, it at least spreads out the cost of the new parts.
there is a replacement hood on shosource.com, but don't know if it is ready to buy right now.
Maybe in a few years when the car prices drop even further, we will see these kind of lighweight reductions happening.
Take Andrew's splitter for instance. He R&D'ed it, built it, and shipped four of them out. It cost him time and money, and he re-couped very little.
I bought one, and cannot wait to install it. However, it just proved there is not a market even for the diehards.
I love this, So You're the "if you want that, buy another car" type? As an engineer, I loathe the replace type of mentality. Maybe the platform hasn't moved forward because all of your guys think it's 1980's and everything is ToO HaRd to make. You act like Ti or carbon is hard to work with or companies like Thedriveshaftshop don't exist.
For hell's sake, no one has even touched E85 and I have yet to see what stops that from happening. You will say fuel pumps but there are readily available drop-in replacement pumps for the flow numbers needed. (I personally hate E85 tunes, been there, done that. So I'm not going to work on that mod) Or how about the trans mount, that could have been made at any local city machine shop in 2hr but we didn't have any options til when? This is not because the machine shops don't want your business, it's because everyone acts like if they can't buy it off a shelf then it's not possible.
Why, WHY, does every forum destroy free thought instead of offer support. Isn't that the whole concept here. Maybe you're all just here to show off, I'm not. Imagine if universities or businesses were like this..
I digress, I'll just work on it and report back.
Feel free to prove people wrong. That is how progress is made. Quite a few here have already blazed trails, but it has been no mean feat to get these accomplishments.
But people relating what they have learned from experience is equally valid input. Being starry eyed all the time is not realistic. Sometimes it takes a disproportionate amount of effort to make a seemingly simple thing happen. Again, not everyone's cup of tea.
I for one wholeheartedly support your effort in seeking progress. Do I have any expectations of results? No. Just not the way the world works. But if results should happen, I will be ecstatic.
Well stated Manu.......
As one of those "trail blazers" (& having been so for many years on this platform) I can report 1st hand, how expensive it's been trying to do just that...... blaze trails.
Never really complained about it, but rather just accepted it as part of the assumed cost(s) of desiring to play.
Some of it has been personally motivated. Some of it's been for the benefit of the platform overall.
I appreciate those owners who've taken up the baton as of late, and have begun carrying the torch moving forward. Truly what makes owning a car of/from this platform, to be enjoyed for what it is, and potentially can be.
That said, I'm still trying to contribute where I can, most notably the likelihood of the machine shop performing my current rebuild, fabricating custom jigs for a much more efficient exhaust manifold, and having the ability to recreate them for others.
I'm bearing the R&D costs up front. Which I don't mind as I am hopeful the shop will be interested in creating more as time goes on. I know at least one other SHO owner who's contacted them to make a 2nd set.
Here's to the future, as well as all those yet to be designed/produced mods yet to come!!
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For me weight reduction reaches it's peak for cost effectiveness after you've done every other modification applicable then you can funnel your money towards the baby weight. Heck I only got a smaller battery for my car because I NEEDED one anyways. If you're talking about getting rid of weight in places that no parts are made for it it's going to get so expensive that you better make sure you're already abusing that money in the engine with it being built with upgraded turbos. Then you can start worrying about a 8lb weight reduction on a $2600 hood or full carbon nonsense saving 2 lbs per $300 you spend. It's not worth it for the platform to research and develop lightweight parts yet because we are still lacking in other areas where cost effectiveness is way better. I.E. Set of cams developed for our car, stronger ptu with more fluid capacity, stronger transmission etc etc
My weight reduction has always been absolutely free or in the case of the battery needed anyways. Reason why I haven't gotten a race seat is because I want to spend the money elsewhere first because it's more effective that way.
My favorite quote when it comes to cars - “Speed cost money. How fast do you want to go?”
WHY WHY WHY? I laid it out for you. Go for it! As an engineer you should understand R&D all the way to final product. Everything you are you thinking of is going to cost you a lot of money. Ask BPD...he has already chimmed in. He is an outlier, just like Jordan.
SHO aftermarket is very limited, because this is a niche community inside of a non existent performance community. We have only gotten the upgrades because we share a motor with other platforms namely the F150.
E85 was touched about 5 years ago. There wasn't a pump that would work on the SHO platform. However, with the evolution of the EB 3.5 over the years, the market opened up and we were the benefit of mostly overlap. We have always benefited from overlap.
If you want to spend 5K to save 300 lbs get after it, no one is stopping you. We are only saying, it isn't worth the cost for 99.8% of SHO owners. Do you know how many posts of over zealous new SHO owners we see on a monthly basis? A lot with your same ideas, you know what we have seen? Very little. They do the research, realize holy crap, and then usually sell the SHO or build something cheaper.
Seen it time and time again, please be different, but be ready to shell out a bunch of cash for one off parts.
Jordan that’s too much responsible rational. Haha
And has it exactly right. You don’t spend money on fancy exhaust when you have bald tires, or buy new wheels when you actually need whatever else to make it run better.
I honestly think 300lbs is a way generous estimate and more like 100lbs would be a fair margin. Hood you'd save like 8lbs maybe, fenders what a couple lbs, driveshaft would probably be the biggest one with sunroof also. Even then the cost to efficiency just is not there unless you have a HUGE build already. If someone who already specialized in this kind of stuff as an owner were to produce it however that would make sense, but otherwise it's a huge undertaking for little benefit like you've said.
My car, like most here, is a daily driver. When I take it to the track, I want to see times that reflect how it is in daily driver form. With seats, with a spare tire, with pump gas. And bang-for-buck dictates what mods I make.
As we have seen Jordan, people come into the SHO community from some other tuner community (which has a large, cheap aftermarket) and they expect the same. They get super zealous because they have a SHO, then the cruel reality of SHO ownership sets in. They rapidly see how little of a aftermarket we have. 95% of the SHO aftermarket is performance based. Intercooler, DP's, HPFP, ect,
Only a handful of people would want a lighter driveshaft. Only a handful of people would want a TI exhaust, only a couple of people would different body panels and hoods.
There is a huge damper on the appearance aftermarket. I think there is couple of reasons why. The SHO actually looks good in stock form. Just subtle changes really change the look. The demand for body pieces ect are little to non existent.
I have owned numerous platforms, and the SHO aftermarket is average at best. I applaud the individuals pushing forward and want them too continue. However, they need to know the truth and they need to know it is tough. People like Mike at EPP and Matt at Gearhead have single handedly spearheaded the performance market for the SHO. That being said, they choose the best parts to develop and upgrade. That is why SHO's owners buy their parts. They see the perceived value, with real world results.
I agree 100%. I want an 11 second time slip at full weight and a quarter tank of gas. Then I know it will run even faster if I decided to take some stuff out, which will probably be never.
I like knowing I can lay waste to 90% of the cars on the road while getting my butt cooled or heated and massaged while listening to talk radio...lol.
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