Entire subframe swap (long read)

Discussion in 'Engine, Intake, Exhaust and Drive Line' started by blk\blk90, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. blk\blk90

    blk\blk90 SHO Member Supporting Member

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    So I picked up a 92 from for Nick @BaySHO Performance (thanks nick!) and I'm trying to decide on what path to take on both cars. In the end I want both cars to be running; I'm not looking to take another SHO outta the game. Heres what I got:

    The 92:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gdnynpyn...y4O1HlnBzrMcvKFqHkkhhih9C1kL-mzarahOhoc4YJ2Cg
    Quaife'd rebuilt tranny w/clutch masters stage 1
    Konis and eibachs
    Delrin sfb's
    Reinforced motor mounts
    Full length sfc's
    The shostopper 13" brakes w/4 piston wilwood calipers
    80mm maf w/shoshop carbon fiber can
    LPM
    Udp's
    Dynomax cat back
    Borlas nib
    3 pod a pillar
    X brace welded between rear strut towers
    The car has been sitting outside for 10 years, and was running when parked. It needs some TLC inside and out, new wheels and tires, new mufflers, new ignition, new rear strut mounts, and it has a taurus hood on, soft eatc needs replaced, new rear brakes, new ebrake pedal assy.

    My 91+
    Aftermarket y-pipe
    Generic turbo mufflers
    Crap short sfc's
    18" wheels
    Top 60k done
    Moon roof seal replaced
    Front stb
    Ricer special intake
    Needs a full brake job, leaks oil horribly bad, needs all new suspension including strut mounts, sfc's need to be corrected, alignment is off, abs light blinks 10, egr causes mil light, needs new clutch and tranny fluid bad, soft button eatc needs replaced, rear seats need replaced, hood struts missing, cable shifter with chopped shifter, needs pedals and shifter, needs dimmer, hacked up trunk wiring, different trunk w/o spoiler, needs weather stripping and doors adjusted, center console and shift boot aren't attached, paint isn't that great, needs new fog lights, ghetto paint on the intake and valve covers.

    Parts I have waiting
    Full front 60k parts and oil pan gasket set
    Control arms
    Swaybar links
    Inner and outer tie rods
    Full brake set
    Rod shifter
    AL sfbs
    Full weather stripping set
    Dimmer
    Hard button eatc
    Shift boot
    Gen 1 and 2 factory deck
    Factory CD player(needs CD player deck)
    2 coin trays
    Harness from deck to trunk
    Factory amp

    Both cars are rust free, white, full leather black interior, and egr(boooo).

    So what I'm thinking is pulling the entire subframe/engine/tranny/suspension and swapping them. Then pull the rear suspension out of the 92 and put it on mine. While it's out of the 92 I can do a full 60k, gaskets, seals, and any other maintenance I can. Sent the intake and other parts off for cleaning and powder coat. When all that is done I can pull mine, clean the engine bay, and do the swap. With mine out and the 91 running with the 92 parts, I can fix and clean mine and install it in the 92. My only problem with that is it would leave the 92 needing a clutch, suspension, and wheels and tires. By the time I fixed those and the rear brakes, if I sold the car it would be for a loss.

    Option 2 is get the 92 back up and running, throw my 18s on it, and drive it. Then get a set of white slicers for the plus and return it to stockish. My problem with this is I'd rather have the 91+ as the modded car.

    My skills are decent, tools are decent, but I only have one jack and a set of stands and ramps. No cherry picker or engine stand. No garage either. The subframe would be sitting on my porch while all this happens. I know this will take a long time. I'm thinking 4 months at least. I'll buy more jack stands for this.

    My main concerns are this:
    Will everything just swap over? Same ccrm, same computer, same suspension, right?
    How much work can be done sitting on furniture dollys?
    Are any special tools needed?
    Am I missing anything?

    Any help is much appreciated!

    Some pics of both cars:

    20190222_182421.jpg


    20190220_164315.jpg


    20190220_164619.jpg


    20190220_164400.jpg


    20190220_164515.jpg


    20181230_125425.jpg


    20181227_173337.jpg


    20181227_173303.jpg


    20181103_000630.jpg


    20181020_164302.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  2. sperold

    sperold Last to Know Supporting Member

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    I would go option 2.

    Taking 2 cars apart and swapping parts leads to one car never getting finished, and eventually being scrapped.
    Even with the best of intentions.

    Most people want the Plus model to be unmodified.

    The engine and subframe components will swap completely but leave the engine harness with the body it came in. The CCRM is the same but the Body Control Module will be different. So leave the harness plugged into the BCM if you do the swap.

    If your 92 had a Taurus hood, then remove the gas filled struts and use a strut rod, as your DIS module will be beaten - up by the strut end on the passenger side.
     
  3. zoomlater

    zoomlater SHO Member Supporting Member

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    I think a lot depends if you prefer and Gen 1 or Gen 2 car. What is the condition of the Gen 2 engine compared to the Gen 1 you have. Mileage, known maintenance, etc.
     
  4. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    How is the wheel clearance on the genI? 18's are a tough task in the rear without body work. Plan for what is most intelligent to what you want and also looking to what will sell down the line when you're ready to move on. Too many projects usually = nothing gets finished. Good luck.
     
  5. blk\blk90

    blk\blk90 SHO Member Supporting Member

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    I prefer the gen 1s. I added a link to the for sale ad of the car. Clearance is ok. They dont rub any from what I can tell. I know I will NEVER sell the 91+. The 92 I may or may not sell.
     
  6. PaulTAutoX

    PaulTAutoX Member

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    You have to satisfy yourself. If you believe that someone wants a concours new from factory '91, then subframe connectors spoil that. And it sounds like that car needs a ton more work. But if you "will NEVER sell the '91", then fix it up, you are the only one to satisfy there. Do not look at it as an investment.

    SFC's don't make or break a car.

    Whichever car you transfer the nice parts to, the other will be left poor and in need. It's all fine to not want to kill a SHO but there are fewer and fewer running. The parts on the '92 are pretty much what I have on mine though I went to coilovers for autocross. If it were me I would want all of that nice suspension on one car, with the better motor and transmission. The other one would get scrapped or parted out.

    It's not whether the wheels are 18's, it's whether the tire profile is too much larger than the OEM's. Width and offset control that more than wheel diameter. IIRC the '91 body is even a little tighter in back than the Gen II. Lowering or more negative camber tilts in the tops a little but that wasn't where mine rubbed worst.

    With my '92 I had to trim the rear fender lips for bigger tires and more offset, and 245 width is about the max you can manage with the perfect offset though different tires can vary somewhat in width for a given stated size. Of course once you figure out the perfect tire, it will be discontinued and the new one may be different! I ended up with Team Dynamics Pro-race 1.2 wheels, 17x8 with 38mm offset and I was using 235/40-17's. I need new tires on it, I will be measuring carefully to see if I can put on 245/40-17's. I'm not aware of whether the TD's are still available, got 'em through Josh at SHONut over ten years ago. But there's a picture on my web page,
    http://www.calweb.net/~pault/BaySHO/PTSHO.htm in case anyone else wants to see them.
     
    blk\blk90 likes this.
  7. blk\blk90

    blk\blk90 SHO Member Supporting Member

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    I think I've figure out what I'm gonna do.

    1. Pull motor/trans/subframe out of the 92.
    2. Replace all gaskets and clean 92 motor/trans/sf. Full 60k. Clean and powdercoat whatever parts I can.
    3. Pull 91 motor/trans/sf and set it aside. Clean entire engine bay. Inspect rack, replace inner/outer tie rods. Replace suspension.
    4. Put refreshed 92 SF into 91.
    5. Pull rear suspension out of 92 and put it in 91.

    That's just for the 91, and will need a bit more after that. Then I can repeat the process for the 92. Cleaning and refreshing. I'm not gonna let another SHO go to the junkyard when it doesnt need it. I'll put the 91 suspension on it for now.
     
    zoomlater and SHOdded like this.
  8. Irish Pride

    Irish Pride Irish Inside Staff Member Super Moderators

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    If the 91 is the one you know you are going to keep then do whatever it takes to get it where you want it. Pull anything off the 92 that you want on the 91 and replace it on the 92 with stock parts. I've done that numerous times for my 91+. I've bought several SHOs in the past just because they had something on it that I wanted and knew that by buying the car I was getting the part(s) for free. I currently have a 90 with a bad engine that I'm planning on replacing in a few weeks. I only bought it because it had a white plus hood on it that I wanted for my 89. The way I look at it, I'm going to make some money on the car and I got a Plus Hood for free.
     

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