Dirty Girl's stranded

Discussion in 'V8 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by 98SF19, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    Surely you guys got new injectors to handle the higher flow - I don't wanna go that route, at least not yet. So the 33gph is a match to OEM? I remember Doug posted something on v8sho about an equation that engineers used for the fuel system for this motor. So if this pump I got can put out the same flow and pressure as OEM, then I suppose the equation would balance. I'll dig a bit more into the specs, and maybe give our buddies at RockAuto a call.
     
  2. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    If I recall - The 'regular' taurus pump was something like 88 LPH.
    The SHO pump was 125 LPH.

    I had a 255 LPH with the supercherged setup in SHO R T S with 42 pound injectors.

    When I removed that drivetrain and returned the car body to stock, I left that 255 LPH pump in the tank with the 19 pound injectors and stock program.

    The fuel regulator simply opened more to allow the pressure to be controlled properly. All the extra gas I was pumping simply returned to the tank.

    As long as the fuel rail pressure is good, the fuel volume doesn't matter as long at it is 'enough'.

    Don't worry about over-sizing the fuel pump. You can't.
     
  3. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I think I'm good with what I got: 125 liters = 33 gallons. Carter (Fuel Systems) spec sheet has max psi @ 60; plenty for FPR to work with.
    https://carterfuelsystems.com/electric-fuel-pump-p90030
    With the shorter length, will this put inlet position out of sync with the float indicator "low fuel level" design depth? Seems that when light comes on, I will be much closer to choking pump with this new pump than with stock pump housing (inlet sock) depth.

    So you had stock FPR running with both setups for SHOrts? I'm confused - if FPR adjusts to output the same design psi, how/why are upgraded injectors needed? Were you using a modified rail to allow higher flow at same psi? But injectors are rated at psi, not flow . . . I'm obviously ignorant on the topic, but my son's taking an interest in "automotive arts" so I need to tighten up.
     
  4. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    Rail custom 1/2" copper with true through fuel path. i.e. in one end, out the other end. Stock fuel rail sucks.

    Fuel pressure regulator kept fuel pressure constant no matter what the flow rate was, but engine would use up 100% open rate with 19 pound injectors and 125 LPH flow rate - I ran out of fuel to maintain correct air/fuel mix with twice the air being forced into the cylinders - So I upped it a little bit to 255 LPH flow potential and 42 pound injectors so the fuel injector pulse rate dwell was not 100% open.

    Then I had it all programmed to run proper fuel curves at stock fuel pressure regulator pressures but flowing through 42 pound injectors.
     
  5. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    This sucks. Got FP installed tonight. Once it got running steady, I was happy. Then I looked at motor and saw IAC disconnected, and I got sad. Reattaching the IAC killed motor, just like original condition. Been bummed all night. I guess I'll try for a legit fuel pressure gauge from a new Autozone that just opened up down the street. If pressure's still down low, I'll take somebody's advice and open up fuel supply line at rail and see how the pressure/flow looks. New IAC, new FPR, new fuel filter, new fuel pump. Sheesh. Might as well buy new MAF. I think I'm on original. Would there be codes for that? Something I did notice looking underneath while it was running for a few seconds was that the cats were smoking, even after less than 30 seconds of running. I feel like I'm going around in circles . . .
     
  6. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    Running very rich will make the cats glow red, but it should take longer than 30 seconds.

    What BRAND is the IAC?

    I have had a few aftermarket ones do strange things. When I have had those issues, I have found switching to a Motorcraft brand IAC was my solution.
     
  7. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    IAC brand is BWD. The motor still eventually dies with IAC disconnected (after SAI cut out?). I feel like it's something relatively simple. Been really wanting to get dirty girl back in shape after discovering a childhood favorite, Dukes of Hazzard on Amazon Prime.

    This is way out of right field, but while removing fuel pump fuse tonight, I noticed a nearby fuse was missing, the power seats. The weird thing is, they still function. Could this really be the thermactor pump fuse. I'll attach the diagram I've had for a while. Any other relays or fuses worth checking?
     

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  8. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I broke down last night and bought the $5 1-week trial at JustAnswers <sigh> I'm now officially one of THOSE guys . . . anyway, the tech is 30 year experienced and was very responsive, brought up an issue I've had before but didn't think about till he mentioned it - CKP. It was the culprit a few years ago when another shop couldn't diagnose (but the dealer did, go figure). Anyway, mentioned checking voltage & ground between various parts of CKP and PCM connectors. I told him about this forum and my screenname as well to avoid having to rewrite the history of issue.
     
  9. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

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    I had some weird experiences with iac's and tuning. the most normal acting iac for me is the motorcraft.
     
  10. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I got a new fp gauge tonight and new pump is putting out 33 psi with KOEO, cycled several times - didn't go any higher. Freaking schrader valve seems like it was stripped so I had to find the point where the fitting was at its tightest and then attach hose. I was hoping for closer to 40, and if 33 is low, I believe it's likely undervoltage at pump. Battery was getting charged at the time. I will measure voltage at pump tomorrow, and also hopefully get in and clean up crankcase position sensor, since this was an issue years ago. Is this likely due to slow dilapidation of sensor housing over time, letting oil permeate into connections? I know oil is designed to get into small spaces.
     
  11. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

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    Back when I first got the car the wwiring harness that was hacked to utter shit. I remember changing out camshaft sensers wasn't until i took out the harnesss and realized the wires were like double butt connected to the cam sensor or w/e Bizzare hackery was going on cant remember. My point is oil isn't great inside the connections and depending on what sensor. I'd say a lil oil doesnt cause much issues.
     
  12. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I think if you address it in time, no, it won't. But I neglected camshaft seal and on 2 occasions had to replace or repair starter. Then there's front main seal leaking wind-blown oil on alternator, or valve cover gaskets that get neglected and hot manifolds are just waiting for that dance . . . Anyway, I'm just keeping fingers crossed that cleaning up CKP with some brake parts cleaner will allow me to advance to next phase of dealing with rack.
     
  13. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    Motorcraft CKP was not the answer . . . E gads this is getting ridiculous.
    Thinking it was an air metering issue, I removed the air box and unhooked the MAF, TPS, and IAC and car ran for about 20 seconds! I'm not sure how the motor is getting air at this point but it doesn't seem to be through TB. After RPMs start to settle, I hear a slight roar of intake opening and car dies. With IAC connected, I hear this air flow pretty much right from the start. Just returned BWD IAC thinking IAC wasn't the issue. I really hate to keep throwing $$$ at her, but I suppose a motorcraft IAC *may* be the issue? I also need to check voltage from CKP to PCM.
     
  14. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

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    I hear an air sound when I shut off my car too and ive heard it on other v8sho to. its a normal air bleeed sound.
    check for vacuum leake than can be easily overlooked
     
  15. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I know what you're talking about, but that's not what I'm describing. With the IAC unhooked, the car runs for a while, and putting my hand in air tube (without airbox or MAF) I feel no vacuum or moving air, but motor's still running fine. After 30 seconds or so, I hear the RPMs settle and motor dies right about the time I hear the sound of intake start to pull air through TB (a rushing air sound). This may be normal operation for all I know, but at that point, motor's dying . . . and it's starting to piss me off.

    I've decided I'll check for continuity, voltage, ground, and short if needed, between the two CKP wires at PCM and at sensor if needed, and also recheck fuel pressure at rail during the unhooked-IAC 3o second run. I will also likely get a motorcraft IAC just to fully rule that out. After that, I'm saving up beans for a trip to Atlanta . . . I have family with a trailer and I think my '15 F-150 3.5 EB needs to flex a bit.
     
  16. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

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    It still really sounds to me like fuel or air. I would definitely get a know quality IAC as it still is the most likely culprit for the conditions you are indicating.

    smn
     
  17. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    My thought from the beginning, but after new fuel pump, filter, and FPR (and 33 psi at rail with KOEO), relatively new TPS, and recently cleaned MAF (not to be completely ruled out I guess), along with new* IAC, it appears to be a little deeper.
    I assume you meant "known"?
    *I think Motorcraft IAC will be the last (small) purchase before project "Atlanta Family Vacation" (aka trip to FPS) gets a sharp uptick on the to-do list.
     
  18. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    You tried running it without MAF to check limp mode vs what it's doing now?
     
  19. 99sho-time

    99sho-time SHO Member

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    starting to remind me of the hell I went through with my start and stall issues. id change iac's and maf's get some obscure changes and couldn't tell what was helping. finally, i pinned it down to the egr system i have zero starting issues and barely any cold misfires with egr disconnected till this day i can't explain why. no codes and no egr codes nothing and fuel trims were totally fine. somehwhere along the way these cars imo get really weird with fuel and air.

    I noticed that when I had my car tuned the thing did not like any iac's other than motorcraft.
    It was act very odd with other iac's
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  20. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    Then pull the little green hose off the diaphragm of the EGR valve and stick a golf tee in it (the hose - to plug the vacuum leak)

    Start the car. What happens?
     

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