Dirty Girl's stranded

Discussion in 'V8 - Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by 98SF19, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I think Newberg has the ashtray area gauges.
     
  2. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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  3. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    It wouldn't be hard to draft one up these days and have some place like shapways 3D print it for ya in what ever color or material you like.

    I think interest for this dropped with the rise of cheap bluetooth and apps like Torque BHP. All those items can be monitored and even alarms set...

    Being the car is 12V it isn't trivial to whip up an Arduino or some other IoT device to add functionality.
     
  4. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes. I put in 4: Oil pressure, oil temperature, transmission fluid temperature, and volts. A 4 gauge cluster fits in where the ash tray was very nicely.

    pax, smn
     
  5. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    Isn't the temperature gauge on instrument cluster indicating the oil temperature, or is that coolant? I'd likely swap the voltage for fuel pressure, as I have a small LCD that I plan to put in plate under steering wheel and connect to full time hot contact with a switch. Stephen, can you put up the pic again please?
     
  6. stephen newberg

    stephen newberg Moderator Staff Member

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    I will look around and see if I can find it. I used to have it on Photobucket. OK, gone from there as they are no longer a free service, I guess. I will have to look a bit more.

    The temp gauge on the OEM instrument panel is for coolant, that is, the temperature of your water/antifreeze mix.

    Does anyone remember if fuel pressure is one of the OBDII readings? If so, likely you can get it simply by plugging in a ScanGage. They plug into the OBDII socket and can run up to 4 separate readings continuously. I used to have one going in the SHO to keep an eye on stuff like the intake air temp and the engine load.

    pax, smn
     
  7. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    There is fuel tank pressure, but not anything to show pressure of the line/rail unfortunately.
     
  8. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    So, back on point. Getting close to just going for pump replacement, but eliminating other possibilities, in this case, the FPR. Asked parts store guy about it and his recommendation was to hook up the vacuum port of FPR to a shop vac or something that can pull hard. Found a really small funnel that worked well with some small gorilla tape strips. Apparently I'm supposed to be able to hear a membrane fluttering or flapping when a strong vacuum is applied? Didn't hear squat, but with the shop vac a few feet away it was hard to tell. Anybody have any experience with this?

    Since the current state of the car is such that no pressure is measured with gauge with KOnEOff and the needle only gets up between 5 and 10 psi with IAC disconnected and giving it a bit of throttle, I thought this *might* indicate bad FPR as the increased motor speed would increase vacuum on FPR, allowing a smidge of gas to get to fuel rail and injectors. It's an inexpensive part, so I'll likely give it a shot this week. Damn how awesome would that be if that were the answer . . .
     
  9. outatyme357

    outatyme357 New Member

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    pull the engine side hose of the fuel filter off and hook into that and cycle the key / check the pump that way. i think you should have something like 35-45psi of pressure from memory.
     
  10. E1

    E1 Crash Tested

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    Fuel pump can make a lot more than that if dead-headed.

    Working with a Centrifugal Supercharger setup and a 12 to 1 ratio FMU (Fuel Management Unit) I was seeing fuel rail pressures north of 100 psi at 10# boost.

    Before everybody asks -
    https://www.jegs.com/p/Vortech/Vortech-Fuel-Management-Units/757886/10002/-1
     
  11. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    It doesn't appear the kit I borrowed from Autozone has a fitting for that hose. It does have some short lengths of hose but no barb/nipple to attached to gauge. I'll look again.

    Re: FPR . . . got a new one but the darn hose barb was angled away from motor so had to cut a new length of hose. Sucked that I had to unhook hi pressure PS hose since getting it reset without leaks seems to be a challenge. (I put on new delrin ring but think there's a small leak now). Anyway, KOEO gave 10 psi (previous FPR was zero, but did get up to 5-10 giving some throttle), and with engine on for a few seconds, it stayed at 10 psi. I think the old FPR was likely corroded and not working right, but that root problem is probably weak pump. I'll find a way to check at the filter and if still down near 10 psi, time for Rockauto.com.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  12. outatyme357

    outatyme357 New Member

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    see if the borrowed gauge has a schrader valve inside it - usually they do, perhaps you can remove the core of that and get an appropriate sized brass slip to thread adapter and a small length of fuel hose and a hose clamp. - I've had to improvise like this before. hell you can probably even take a pressure gauge for an air compressor and rig up a way to hook that to the fuel filter outlet barb. - all it really takes is a few koeo ignition cycles to see what the pressure settles at. if it's above 30 you know it is your FPR or some obstruction.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  13. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    So I did like outatyme said and dead ended into motor side of fuel filter. This was after trying to use the pressure guage kit brass double barb in place of the filter, which just caused 2 places for fuel to squirt out (one of the original hose clips broke). Connecting as shown in pic was the best possible way, but I still got fuel spraying out where the small hose is press fit over the brass fitting threading (not how it was intended to be, but it was the only way to do it). *Gauge needle never moved* The things gotta be defective considering how much pressure it would take to force fuel through 8-12 brass threads with a tight fit rubber hose. Does the air in rubber guage hose need to be evacuated to get a reading? I didn't do this with the minivan and although it also leaked a bit once connected, needle did jump up to about 60 before settling down.
     
  14. outatyme357

    outatyme357 New Member

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    either the gauge is bad or there is a schrader valve inside the end of that hose in the brass fitting above the steel crimp that needs to be taken out (unscrewed) it'll look like a bigger version of the inside of a tire valve if it is there and causing your issue.
     
  15. outatyme357

    outatyme357 New Member

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    the air doesn't matter perhaps take the gauge set to another vehicle and verify its functional status
     
  16. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    I was able to get needle to jump up to around 60 psi on our minivan, which apparently is what it puts out. This required taking apart the intake to get at connection so I wasn't able to start motor and along with the imperfect seal on line, pressure slowly dropped off. Also, this setup did NOT use the Schrader adapter that is needed for the SHO . . . Anyway, I took the set back to AutoZone last night and said "Gim'mah money back Holmes!" Told him the Schrader adapter fell apart a couple times before I noticed the tiny o-ring was broken. DOH! New FP and filter socks are on the way. Didn't run me more than $60 or so on RockAuto after shipping, so I get to do Eric's "back seat" FP replacement method. THEN I get to replace rack . . . *yaaaaaay* . . . Dirty Girl will drive me into bankruptcy.

    EDIT: I wanted to add that when I caught a bunch of the gas that was leaking out during the dead end test, after about 15 minutes I went to transfer it to my lawn mower and noticed clear separation of the water at bottom. So your concern about the separation was/is indeed causing problems. Plan on doing FP this weekend and will be sure to drain the tank.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  17. 98SF19

    98SF19 AlphaKennyBuddy

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    So Eric's rear seat fuel pump access approach worked perfectly.

    The only area to be careful with depth is the rear (short) segment - you have about 1/8" between cutting surface and top of tank.

    I'm not done though, partly because I prioritized wife and mother today ahead of dirty girl, AND I had baby duty (which always involves baby doody . . .)

    I think buying the low end fuel pump from Rockauto may have been a bad choice. Here is a comparison of original to what I bought from RA:
    Is it even worth installing or should I return and get the OEM size? If someone says they've gone with this smaller one ($32 Carter model P90030 - ONE OF THE 'HEARTED' MODELS) with no issues, then I'll go for it. I just don't want to "downgrade" a component like the fuel pump after removing secondary butterflies and shaft and be running a bit lean, wishing I'd gotten an OEM spec replacement. I'm assuming this smaller pump doesn't make the high-end pressure point that OEM did . . .
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  18. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    gamefanatic likes this.
  19. gamefanatic

    gamefanatic SHO Member

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    I agree it should fit. Keep in mind that the actual size / depth isn't as important as it fitting properly. It will be in the housing which has some areas which hold the fuel closer to the pump. Also the new pump may actually sit lower if there is included vibration dampner and/or cooling.
    My TCE Performance 255lph had additional rubber and foam that wasn't included with the OEM, that actually required more room once installed.
     
  20. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    That's a high volume pump. I don't think I ever went above the 190lph. I think I used one of those and a 155lph. I think stock is the 33gallon/hr or around 125ish lph.
     

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