Coilovers 101 - UPDATE- articulating mount issue solved!

Discussion in 'Gen 1 & 2 - Suspension, Brakes & Body' started by TimboSHO, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. shopartsnw

    shopartsnw SHO Medic Staff Member Sponsoring Vendor

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    Technically, they should be self lubricating and not need lube. After the modification you could try them dry if you want, since dry will not attract dirt. If you do lube them, i would recommend dielectric silicone grease since it is least likely to negatively impact the plastic, but anything compatible with nylon is fine.

    Mike
     
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  2. One_Shot

    One_Shot SHO Member

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    Mine has made noise like the springs are binding when I turn the wheels back and forth since they were installed. Has anybody else noticed this? I didn’t think much of it at first since it really only does it during slow sharp turns but now I’m starting to wonder if it’s related to the same issue you guys are having with the camber plate and articulating mount.
     
  3. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    Yes, that is the issue I am trying to solve currently.
     
  4. Irish Pride

    Irish Pride Irish Inside Staff Member

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    Got home yesterday to find my new modified mounts in the mail. Do I just send the old ones back to the return address on the envelope?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    Still have the same result with the new blocks.... Mike is trying to figure out what is happening. Has no one else except for One_Shot had this problem?

    On another note, since installation last fall they dropped about 1/8" all the way around. Since I've put about 100 miles on them this spring, they dropped another 1/8". Keep this in mind when choosing your height! Ive had to raise mine slightly so I can still get the jack under the front bumper!
     
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  6. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    Ok, here is my major update.

    Mike sent me some needle bearings to help things rotate better. Needle bearings.jpg
    Those were a huge help. They solved 90% of the binding. I put them on the top of the springs, but had to modify the bottom of the lower aluminum block part of the articulating mount. I used a die grinder with a square end, but it would probably look neater if you had access to a machine shop. Aluminum block before.jpg Aluminum block modified.jpg

    Now, I say it solved 90% of the issue, because the needle bearing on the right side binds a slight bit. For some reason the right one is always a bit tighter. I'm sure I just need to tweak something with all of the times I have taken them apart and put them back together.

    Here it is together.
    Coilover with bearing.jpg

    I aligned it today and set it at -2 deg camber. The minimum I could get was just under -2 degrees, so if you want less than that, you will have to flip the yellow blocks back the way I had them first. The maximum I could get that way was -1.75 deg.

    One thing I would suggest is to replace the washers that hold the nuts on the top. They tend to bend a bit, and after taking apart and reassembling multiple times, mine started to crack. I put some thicker ones on there while aligning it.
    Failed washers.jpg

    All in all, I am very happy with the setup. I hope to autocross with it soon, but I also have a growing family and a lot of family obligations as well.

    I also want to thank Mike (and the other guys) from SHOsource for all of the help. They did everything they could to make me a happy customer! Thanks again!
     
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  7. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    Ok, now I found that the articulating mounts are still binding between the two halves, but it's only on sharp turns. I will get to the bottom of this somehow, but just wondering if anyone else has experienced this? Again, this is my first set of coilovers on anything, so I don't know what to expect, other than I know it's not right.
     
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  8. Irish Pride

    Irish Pride Irish Inside Staff Member

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    I'm learning thru you. I'm just going to hold off on my install to see what you come up with.
     
  9. shopartsnw

    shopartsnw SHO Medic Staff Member Sponsoring Vendor

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    Tim,

    I would have installed the needle bearings where you did also, but according to the manufacturer, they recommended the needle bearings be installed under the springs. It doesn't seem like it would make a difference, but it would have eliminated the die grinder work on the upper spring mount. Did you try the thrust bearings under the springs first?

    I also don't understand how you can be dropping height. Can you put a paint pen mark across all the lock nuts and threads to make sure nothing is moving over time?

    I don't know why your set has had so many issues, so it will be good to get to the root of it all.

    Mike
     
  10. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    I might have to try the bearings under the spring. But as a technician who had to work on some of the old early 90s luminas that had this design, I know the bearings are more prone to failure if they are underneath the spring. I guess my car won't see some of the elements that would cause the failure, but this is the reason I put them on top.

    Don't the springs need to settle just like any other? I am surprised that they settled that much though, and it was uniform for the front and rear, they all settled the same. Now that I've had the fronts apart so many times, it's hard to keep track if they settle any more because I've had to make some height adjustments.

    Would there be any way to 'freeze' the two pieces of articulating mount together once they are in the right position? It seems like the needle bearings should be taking the turning load away from them, so I don't see how they still want to turn and bind. Seems odd to me too, and it only does it when they are in the car and the load is back on them. I wish I had a way to test them out of the car, as it would be easier to make changes and test, but out of the car they always rotate so smoothly.
     
  11. Jesse Menck

    Jesse Menck SHO Member

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    I too have this problem. Are your factory camber plates still on? I painted my engine bay and left mine on and it almost seems as though they have shifted.
     
  12. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    I took the factory plates out. I already had them drilled out and they just got in the way when I was aligning it.
     
  13. Toolman

    Toolman Boost it! Staff Member

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    Haven’t read the entire thread, I will later, but in summary, your issue was mainly the articulating mounts that does not like to articulate? I removed mine and replaced with a needle bearing mount. Never could get them not to bind and pop. Caused horrible tracking issues as the front wheels never wanted to “rest” in an aligned position.
     
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  14. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    Yes, articulating mounts that don't articulate. PM sent.
     
  15. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    UPDATE!!!

    I took them apart a few days ago and wiped out all of the dielectric grease and applied a liberal amount of bearing grease between the two halves of the articulating mount, and between the top part and yellow block. Now it turns perfectly smooth in both directions on both sides, as smooth as I expected from the beginning.

    This time when I took them apart, I took the bottom out of the knuckle and the sway bar link off, then I just took the top nut off of the strut. This allows me to retain my alignment settings without having to meticulously line anything up, or count turns of the spanner nut to drop the spring down. I have a battery operated 1/2" impact that just takes the nuts on and off with ease.

    Now, to terrorize the autocross courses of West Michigan....
     
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  16. Toolman

    Toolman Boost it! Staff Member

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    And get ready for SHOhio 2019!!
     
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  17. One_Shot

    One_Shot SHO Member

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    That is interesting because I put dielectric grease on mine as well. Makes me wonder if they would have been better off dry since they were supposed to be self lubricating? They did say adding dielectric grease was optional.

    Did you install them with the bearings again that shosource provided?
     
  18. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    I tried them dry first, and it was no better.

    Yes, I do have the needle bearings on the top of the springs. If you put them underneath the spring, you might not have to do any modifications.
     
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  19. One_Shot

    One_Shot SHO Member

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    Cool I might have to contact them about some bearings to fix mine also. Good work!
     
  20. shobote

    shobote SHO Member

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    Keep in mind, too much front swaybar will make the car understeer or push (you try to turn into a corner but the front wheels tend to slide). This is the safer condition for most street drivers. Too much rear sway bar, and the car tends to oversteer (the back end comes around and you spin). This is how race drivers like it, but it can be dangerous on the street.

    Mike, methinks you have this backwards. Too much front swaybar leads to oversteer and that is when the rear comes around, while too much rear swaybar leads to understeer. On my GC Hemi I put on a larger rear sway bar and the understeer was terrible. I then added the larger front bar and became neutral. When I installed Koni FSD's, went back to stock bars since the ride was too rough and bouncy with the bigger bars, and all is great. It is easy to replace the front bar on almost all cars, except of course the SHO !
     

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