Code 211 with code reader...

Discussion in 'Engine, Intake, Exhaust and Drive Line' started by Goose, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Hey all,

    I am getting a Code 211 with my code reader. The other codes were (10, 111 systems ok)

    The car starts fine, and will idle for 2 - 10 minutes before the CE light will come on and the tach will drop to zero. It feels like All power gets cut off for a second or two - however, it bounces right back to idling fine. This situation does not happen each and every time the same way, but has been happening at least once every time I've driven the car.

    While driving, the above situation seems to mostly occur between 5 - 30mph, but it has happened at much higher speeds on the highway. It has happened when just taking off, and has happened at speed.

    I'm here to ask your opinions on what it might be. The DIS module was replaced (pretty sure) sometime in the last 10 years. The MAF was cleaned recently and the chip was taken out. The car is a garage queen and never sits outside for any length of time.

    Thanks.
     
  2. zoomlater

    zoomlater SHO Member Supporting Member

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    It could be your crankshaft sensor as it maybe starting to fail, I have had my car shut off and start up right up again while driving on the highway. I also had a 211 code and it eventually started to fail more often. Take a look at this thread if you need to track one down.

    Did you recently clear your codes and these are the codes that came up? Do you know if the crank sensor was ever changed in the past. Your car has low miles so it would seem the crank sensor should still be good. Do you have spare DIS you can swap out to see if that is the problem

    https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/new-crankshaft-postion-sensor-89-95.138175/page-4
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  3. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Hi,

    Well there is another wrinkle. The sho did loose power once today, a second or two including loosing power to the radar detector (happenes every time it does this). The rpm's spiked up and down three times also (has happened before also).

    However, I noticed that the TEMP Gauge was climbing up to the "O" and near the "N" in normal. Very hot it seems.
    The sho sat for a solid 15 minutes while I watched this. I turned the heat on to 90 and with the fan, it went back down to "M" and "A", much more normal. Coolant level is fine.

    I will note that when the fan came on (I believe this was only once), the rpm dropped and when back up.

    Further help needed.
    Thanks.
     
  4. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    It sounds like you have a bad power connection somewhere, rather than a sensor problem. Especially given that you have an accessory that loses power at the same time that the engine blips off. If the radar detector does not turn on when the key is turned back to accessory mode, than it is powered off of "run" power, and if the installer cut a wire to splice it in, it could be a bad splice now affecting that circuit. If it is cigar lighter powered, than it should be always on, even without key, and you are losing all power (although lighter power connection is often flaky anyway).

    The most likely suspect is the ignition switch, since it has wear components, and has several circuits where only one may drop out. It may be problematic after the car runs and vibrates for a while, with a keychain hanging, as opposed to engine heat causing your problem.

    Check, clean, and tighten battery terminals, wires from battery to starter, alternator terminal, and engine compartment fuse box terminal. Leave one battery terminal disconnected when working on any other power connection. Remove and reinstall engine compartment fuses, ensuring they aren't corroded or loose-feeling.

    Also, one should verify the ground wire from the ECU to strut tower as well as the engine ground strap, both on the back passenger side.
     
    SHOMON likes this.
  5. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Thanks guys for the assist. The radar is plugged into the cigarette lighter. When the car looses power, the radar does also, the car comes back to life, I have to manually turn the detector back on.

    Battery terminals are fine, it has no issue actually starting. I'll have to check on the rest. Do you have a link or direction for me for the ignition switch? A Code 211 has to do with a bad ignition module - (tft) mounted to the base of the distributor. That's was the definition says anyway, I'm not a mechanic.

    I erased the codes in the reader and need to take it on another run. What are your thoughts on the Code 211? Like Zoomlater says, crankshaft sensor? While the car does sit in the garage most of the time, most of the parts under the hood are original. With the Code 211 I received, I'm trying to narrow it down to one or two items and not a wild goose chase willy nilly replacing parts, if possible.

    Thanks.
     
  6. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    The 211 code is set in memory from failure of the PIP signal from the crank position sensor. There is no distributor on a SHO.

    However, it is likely merely a symptom of a power problem from a bad connection or wire - that the power to the sensors cuts out before the PCM's power supply (internal to the car's computer) runs out of electricity, which may last longer due to internal voltage regulation (capacitors), setting the code.

    The PCM, crank, and cam sensor, and also "DIS" ignition module (which supplies the tachometer), are powered by a "Ign Coil" 10A fuse in the engine compartment fuse box, The PCM is turned on by this wire via the CCRM module, while the sensors are powered directly by the fuse. The engine compartment 10A ignition fuse gets its power via the ignition switch (and "R/LG" wire). The ignition switch gets its input power for many circuits from a big yellow wire.

    The cigarette lighter (and horn) instead doesn't need the ignition switch at all, is on all the time, and gets its power from the inside fuse box. Everything on that fuse box is powered by a big 40A fuse in the engine compartment.

    That lets us know that the failure in the power is happening in the engine fuse box, or its battery wiring (which first goes to the starter and alternator) - that is the only part of the wiring they have in common. If you can't find a connection problem, then you should remove the covering for the entire length of battery wiring and inspect that there is not a more dangerous short where the insulation has worn through.

    If not a bad connector or connection at or inside the fuse box, something like the alternator's voltage regulator glitching out is another possibility. It is also possible one of the other circuits has an intermittent short (even a jiggling cigarette lighter adapter), which doesn't last long enough to pop a fuse but is enough to drop the system voltage.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  7. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Hi,

    I am aware that there is no distributor on the SHO. I've replaced the DIS module before, it was a long time ago. Thank you for that information.

    So tomorrow I'll check all the fuses in the box in the engine bay to see if any are corroded etc. What else should be on that check list in your opinion?
     
  8. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    You'll have to do the actual work of checking the rest - cleaning the oily wires and removing them from the loom to inspect, wire bolts at the starter solenoid, wire bolted onto the end of the fuse housing, grounds as described before. It's more fun to talk about cars than actually work on cars.

    That you mentioned it shouldn't lead us to conclude it is a problem, but one should at least see if the ignition system issue is replicated without anything in the cigar lighter.

    If the fault just cannot be discovered by inspection, and you've cleaned terminals, replaced the alternator, everything else reasonable, you may have to pull the fuses for everything not related to engine management and test drive again, to verify it is not a shorting wire on one of those other circuits.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  9. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    "It's more fun to talk about cars than actually work on cars." I have to agree with this statement :)

    I appreciate your involvement and will give the those engine issues a once over. I'll run the car without the radar in the next time it's out, as I just deleted the codes in the reader. We'll see what, if anything, that does.

    I'm sure I'll be back at this thread. I'll probably just bump it up if need be.

    Thank you.
     
  10. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    Some other "complete power failure detector" might be useful to confirm the diagnosis - even driving around with a map light on (or faster responding 211 LED dome light bulb) to see if it flickers coinciding with engine glitching.
     
  11. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Any light such as the dome light or vanity light, leave it on or visible to see if any dimming/lack of power occurs?
     
  12. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    I took it out just a short time ago. The car bucked/hiccuped 3 times in a very short succession (total of 3-4 seconds) and the CE and ABS light came on briefly then went out, but this was when the engine was dead cold. I was in second gear under 20mph.

    The vanity light fluttered almost imperceptibly but stayed on. This happened the second hiccup time only. The first two times, all the lights were fine. I had a passenger paying attention.

    I stayed at 30mph or less until I got to the highway, nothing happened. No loss of anything. I went through all the gears up to 75 - 80mph 6k rpms+ on the highway and everything was fine.

    I plugged the radar into the cigarette lighter on the way back, nothing happened at all. Wiggled the socked, no issues.

    The rest of the 40 min. round trip nothing happened at all. I ran the codes in the garage just after parking, the only codes where 111, and 10 - Systems ok.

    The engine still seems to be running abnormally high at point during the trip. It doesn't seem that the fan is coming on fast enough or long enough. Supposedly the LPM chip was to have the fan come on much sooner than stock - is this what I'm seeing? The chip has been in the car for a long time, its primarily been in the car for 17 years. (tho not at the moment) Does the SHO get up into the "O" and "N" naturally?

    Thanks.
     
  13. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    What is the code 10? From ABS? A computer clear of sensor faults and stored codes will blink 1-1-1---1-1-1------1------1-1-1---1-1-1. Codes are just a side effect, anyway.

    Time to wiggle test, if you don't want to get into the car yet with your eyes on the prize. That is grabbing and wiggling all the wire harness you can get to without endangering yourself on a running car, tapping on ignition components, to see if you can recreate the fault at idle. That's both exploring around and under the engine bay, and also under the steering wheel panel and glove box. Inspect those places most susceptible to damage, near pulleys. Like alternator wiring... Under the engine. Something like a worn-through AC compressor wire bouncing against a pulley could be hard to diagnose - you can't see it well or access it, and it may only fault in combination with AC running and cycled on. Crank position sensors installed wrong have even had the wires worn through, but it is unlikely with this symptom.

    Engine cooling is not something to worry about now, if you aren't overheating or boiling over. Both the coolant sensor that turns on the fan and the sensor that runs the gauge, and especially the gauge itself, aren't all that precise.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  14. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    In my code reader book it starts at code 11. I was/am assuming it was reading code 10 as code 11.
    I couldn't find much mention of a code 10. This mentions something however: https://www.justanswer.com/ford/2mw5k-chck-engine-lite-so-took-shop.html (I have not done any engine running tests only KOEO)

    So the reader was saying, 111, 10, 111 and then it stopped. I re-ran the test, same result.

    During the road test today there were no lights on, no AC running, no radio. Everything was off. The temp gauge was getting very close to being on "N" and I'm not particularly comfortable with that. I don't recall having that issue with the LPM plugged in.

    I found this also:
    " Hello, on EEC IV vehicles, pre OBD-II, 111 means KOEO (key on engine off) passes, 10 means KOER (key on engine running) passes, and KOEC (key on engine continuous)...."
    https://repairpal.com/what-do-these-mean-codes-111-10-223-224-476
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  15. BaySHO Performance

    BaySHO Performance SHO Member

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    Code 10 is just a single blip between on demand and stored codes. Not an actual code.

    The Engine Coolant Temp (ECT) Sender is what sends a signal to the PCM to turn the fan on. You might want to replace it, although they should throw a code if bad. There's two housings at the back of the engine joined by a short large hose: the front one contains the thermostat, the rear one the ECT.
     
  16. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    Ok. So there is no Code 10. So the only other Code I received was 111. I'm guessing the sho didn't fix itself. So what happened to the other codes it was throwing? Flushed out when I deleted the codes in the reader? Just getting the car confused?

    I guess we'll see in the coming days and weeks if the car stays running well. There's a large check list in the posts above to go through.

    Will any 1995 ECT and Thermostat work or do you recommend anything better?

    Thanks.
     
  17. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    Yes you are actually probably better off clearing all the existing codes and seeing what pops back up.
     
  18. Goose

    Goose Memeber #332

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    I have cleared all the codes and then re-ran the test again yesterday. It shows 111,10,111.
     
  19. NoSlo

    NoSlo GoldMember

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    You are better off finding the wiring fault before some arcing sparking wire fire eliminates the concern for you.
     
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