Car won't start, cant hear fuel pump prime with ignition on.

SHOGUN-NH

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So last week my car was running normally as usual. When the next time I go to start it, it wont start. So I listen closely and noticed that I can't hear the fuel pump prime with the ignition on. The car will crank and crank all day but nothing. So I ordered a new fuel pump/ fuel sending unit ( the whole kit from rockauto). So after installing the new pump, i waited to put the entire fuel tank back up under the car so I can test it. Everything was hooked back up properly. (Electrical connection and fuel hoses) and I still hear no humming/ buzzing of the fuel pump priming with the ignition on as i have hundreds of times before. And it still wont start. Has anyone had the same issue? And if so how did you fix it?
 

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zoomlater

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Is the ccrm located above the radiator fan under the thin black plastic panel attached to the radiator support? And if so I do not have a spare. Has tapping it worked for you or others?
yes, that is where it is, black metal box with a letter on it. I have not had to tap it, but others have posted you can try doing that to free a stuck relay. Take a look at this post to check the CCRM


Here is some additional posting that maybe an issue as the PCM and CCRM are connected, could be a wiring issue between the two as well

 
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luigisho

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If it is the CCRM which sounds likely you need a replacement that has the same letter on the top if you get a used part. Even if tapping it works to activate the relay I would not trust it going forward
 

SHOGUN-NH

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Thank you very much for all of the input. I will go through all of this thoroughly once I get out of work. If I have any more questions ill be sure to post
 

BaySHO Performance

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For future reference, when the pump doesn't prime the rails when the ignition is turned on, it will be the pump or CCRM. To find out which it is, test for voltage at the fuel cutoff switch in the trunk when you turn the ignition on. Voltage: bad pump. No voltage: bad CCRM, which has to be the case here as changing the pump didn't make a difference.

 

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So last week my car was running normally as usual. When the next time I go to start it, it wont start. So I listen closely and noticed that I can't hear the fuel pump prime with the ignition on. The car will crank and crank all day but nothing. So I ordered a new fuel pump/ fuel sending unit ( the whole kit from rockauto). So after installing the new pump, i waited to put the entire fuel tank back up under the car so I can test it. Everything was hooked back up properly. (Electrical connection and fuel hoses) and I still hear no humming/ buzzing of the fuel pump priming with the ignition on as i have hundreds of times before. And it still wont start. Has anyone had the same issue? And if so how did you fix it?
Does the engine cooling fan come on with the ignition in on position? If not CCRM.
 

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Does the engine cooling fan come on with the ignition in on position? If not CCRM.
That will only happen if one is pulling codes. At the start of the self test, the fan should come on. But not when simply turning on the ignition, unless the AC is already turned on.
 

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I had the same issue twice before in my old 89. Once, it was the cutoff switch in the trunk. The other time it was indeed the CCRM. I used the plastic handle of a large screwdriver to give it a few good whacks and the pump came back to life. I never had another issue with it. Never did swap it for another, and that car is still on the road with a friend of mine up in Wisconsin.

-Chad
 

SHOGUN-NH

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Does the engine cooling fan come on with the ignition in on position? If not CCRM.
Yes the cooling fan turns on when the ignition is on. I took the advice and gave the ccrm a love tap and the pump quickly turned on then off. So I had briefly freed up the relay for the fuel pump in the ccrm. But it is a North East so im guessing that was its "last hoorah". I have a used one on order, D code seeing as it is a 94 mtx
 

FastCAD

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That will only happen if one is pulling codes. At the start of the self test, the fan should come on. But not when simply turning on the ignition, unless the AC is already turned on.
I always have my a/c on it's a so.fla. requirement. Sorry I didn't remember that the a/c needed to be turned on to show continuity between the CCRM and PCM.
Thanks
p.s. what do you think about hot dipped alum. sub-frame bushings?
 

FastCAD

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Yes the cooling fan turns on when the ignition is on. I took the advice and gave the ccrm a love tap and the pump quickly turned on then off. So I had briefly freed up the relay for the fuel pump in the ccrm. But it is a North East so im guessing that was its "last hoorah". I have a used one on order, D code seeing as it is a 94 mtx
Four Seasons also has new ccrm's for the SHO but they call it cooling fan relay. I have had over the years at least 6 ccrm's and only one was able to be fixed with a bit of solder at a fried connection which probably means; it's a good idea to dis-connect the neg. batt. cable before poking around the SHO electrical system. lol
p.s. note; the FS ccrm has given good service for quite some time now but I have stopped "poking around" my elec. sys. with the batt. connected. lol
 
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BaySHO Performance

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p.s. what do you think about hot dipped alum. sub-frame bushings?
Don't know what you mean by hot dipped, but I'm a big fan of the bushings SHO Source sells. Initial turn in is really mushy with the flexible rubber bushings as the engine / transmission assembly momentarily swings to the outside of the corner, whereas it's really crisp and instantaneous with the AL ones.

Bear in mind that engine flex is normally shared between the bushings and mounts, both of which are rubber. All the flex will now be taken up by the mounts. They can usually handle it on the street, but upgrading to reinforced mounts would be a must for the track.
 

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Yes the cooling fan turns on when the ignition is on. I took the advice and gave the ccrm a love tap and the pump quickly turned on then off. So I had briefly freed up the relay for the fuel pump in the ccrm. But it is a North East so im guessing that was its "last hoorah". I have a used one on order, D code seeing as it is a 94 mtx
maybe it needs a few more love taps.... Did you try starting after that?

So do you have your AC turned on already when you turn the ignition on? If not, it is not suppose to turn on as Nick mentioned above. From what I have been reading it could be an issue with the PCM or grounds. I have been looking into this for awhile as I have a 94 MTX that sits in the garage and gets started every other month or so. For the last year or more, my fan would turn on as well when I turn the ignition on. However, once the car is warmed up, when I try and restart the car, it acts normal (no fan turning on when I turn the key, but not starting). I finally pulled out my spare ECU to see if that is really the issue or something else.
 

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maybe it needs a few more love taps.... Did you try starting after that?

So do you have your AC turned on already when you turn the ignition on? If not, it is not suppose to turn on as Nick mentioned above. From what I have been reading it could be an issue with the PCM or grounds. I have been looking into this for awhile as I have a 94 MTX that sits in the garage and gets started every other month or so. For the last year or more, my fan would turn on as well when I turn the ignition on. However, once the car is warmed up, when I try and restart the car, it acts normal (no fan turning on when I turn the key, but not starting). I finally pulled out my spare ECU to see if that is really the issue or something else.
Trust me after I heard it come on briefly I did give it a few more taps as well as disconnect and make sure all of the connection blades and contact points were clean and free of corrosion. I did try starting after that probably 5 or 6 times. I know it would take a little time to refill all of the lines and whatnot but I still didnt hear anything after from the pump very quickly came on and shut off the one time ill retry again today with a few love taps
 

SHOGUN-NH

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Trust me after I heard it come on briefly I did give it a few more taps as well as disconnect and make sure all of the connection blades and contact points were clean and free of corrosion. I did try starting after that probably 5 or 6 times. I know it would take a little time to refill all of the lines and whatnot but I still didnt hear anything after from the pump very quickly came on and shut off the one time ill retry again today with a few love taps
And yeah I made sure that the AC and all other accessories were off and the fan still turns on
 

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Okay so I have just replaced the CCRM with one from SHO-SOURCE and the Fan still comes on when the ignition is on (with the AC / climate control all turned off) I checked the 30A fuse in the box on the firewall and that was still good. and I still get no sound from the new fuel pump. I'm pretty stumped at this point. The battery is new. I got it just a few months ago. And have really only had to do normal maintenance like tires and brakes a such since owning it. Not going to lie this is pretty frustrating. Any other input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Gillam
 

BaySHO Performance

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Blip the valve on the fuel rail to see if gas comes out. Check for voltage at the fuel pump cutoff switch in the trunk. Voltage: bad pump (but it's new and may not be making any noise). No voltage: bad CCRM, but I assume that the one from SHO Source is good.

So if no fuel at the rails, then start tracing the wiring.

If one removes the connector from the back of the PCM, the fan comes on. So make sure it's on nice and tight.
 

luigisho

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maybe it needs a few more love taps.... Did you try starting after that?

So do you have your AC turned on already when you turn the ignition on? If not, it is not suppose to turn on as Nick mentioned above. From what I have been reading it could be an issue with the PCM or grounds. I have been looking into this for awhile as I have a 94 MTX that sits in the garage and gets started every other month or so. For the last year or more, my fan would turn on as well when I turn the ignition on. However, once the car is warmed up, when I try and restart the car, it acts normal (no fan turning on when I turn the key, but not starting). I finally pulled out my spare ECU to see if that is really the issue or something else.
Did you notice this to be the diffference?
 
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