93 MTX 3.0 no spark cylinder 2 &6

Josh.berding7689

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93 3.0l V6 (Yamaha motor)
Mtx

the car runs, stars fine, just not firing all cylinders. sluggish acxel at lower Rpms (I can floor it in 1st /2nd and no fast pickup. secondaries work. KOER test only showed 4 cylinders.


okay so, I have done fuel pressure test, cylinder pressure test, purchased new coil pack (NGK which works fine technically), still have oem coil as back up in case. newer wires, spark plugs are decently good. (Bosch), yes I'm aware of the motor craft being superior. in cylinder 2, the spark plug looks brand new, even after a couple months.)

CODES:

KOEO 11-29-2021

O 0114 P0114 Intake Air Temperature Circuit Intermittent
O 0556 P0556 - Brake Booster Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance

C 0217 P0217 - Engine Over temp Condition
C 0542 P0542 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit High
C 0543 P0543 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit Open
C 0556

Koer (12-3-21)
r136 - (maybe) I say maybe because when I did the throttle push test, i didn't use gas order, used my hand and it stick wide open for 3 seconds.. (second time this code didn't appear...)

r536
r521


=issues currently known=


--no acceleration /get up at lower idle/take off(especially lower Rpms)
-- garbage MPG
-rocky idle at times (even after resetting ECU it comes back.
-- no power steering (leak issue)

--oil in spark plug well (90% sure a valve gasket is needed)
-- gas smell while inside car!
-+ Rare occasions it will die when coming to a stop. but starts back up.



!# actions thus far #!

- tested MAF via multimeter/unplug method. connector seems to be working, however no change with the disconnect method.
- air temp sensor was replaced, but code still shows (possibly because maf isn't working?
-- new air filter
- fuel line broke(replaced with fuel line((not the plastic the enforced rubber tube)) with no connector.( was this smart or does the connecter help the pressure?
--cleaning fuel injectors with cars cleaner tomorrow!!


results for the fuel test were

running : 32pai
idle: 10 psi
throttling : 27/28pai

pressure cylinder test was as followed.

(see pic , if I need to label cylinders I will...)


where so I begin please help. this is my first car I have actually tried to work in myself any tips??
 

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rubydist

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I know from experience that these engines will never run right with that IAT code, so you need to fix that first. If a new sensor doesn't fix it, then check the wiring between the sensor and the pcm. In some cases the pcm has been bad, but its more likely that the wiring is bad.
 

luigisho

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I agree with above. Another thing to look at with stalling when coming to a stop is the idle air valve (referred to IAB/IAC). This is the cylindrical looking thing with an electrical plug on the intake manifold parallel to the throttle body. Looks like a 2 piece attached together. Oil coated plugs can foul at lower rpms or carbon track. But again IAT code is a PITA and needs to be addressed. Also recheck the plug wire routing. Some tech books had the incorrect routing from cylinder to coil pack.

You must be registered for see images attach


Looking at the engine:
Cylinder numbers
firewall
1 2 3
4 5 6
front of car

coil pack
5 1
6 2
4 3
front of car

Everything is suspect on cars of this age. Parts, wiring, computer etc. An extra working compatible PCM (computer) is not a bad thing to have on hand with these cars. When I daily drove these cars I usually had 1 or 2 laying around. Makes backyard diagnostics and repair turnaround time much faster when you need to get to work.
Good luck and post back with what you need or discover
 

BaySHO Performance

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93 3.0l V6 (Yamaha motor)
Mtx

CODES:

KOEO 11-29-2021

O 0114 P0114 Intake Air Temperature Circuit Intermittent
O 0556 P0556 - Brake Booster Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance

C 0217 P0217 - Engine Over temp Condition
C 0542 P0542 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit High
C 0543 P0543 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit Open
C 0556

Koer (12-3-21)
r136 - (maybe) I say maybe because when I did the throttle push test, i didn't use gas order, used my hand and it stick wide open for 3 seconds.. (second time this code didn't appear...)

r536
r521
Something fishy about the codes you state. Ones beginning with 'P' are those that come up on 96+ Fords, not your 93. So what code reader are you using?

Here are the code meanings for your '93:


I will assume that the 114 and first 556 were On Demand codes that happened during the test. Interpreting yours from that list:

On Demand:

114 ACT (Air Charge Temp) can be ignored
556 Fuel Pump Relay Primary Circuit Failure. Car runs, so ignore. Nothing to do with Brake Booster.

Stored:

217 Coil 3 circuit failure. Nothing to do with Engine over temp.
542 Fuel Pump Secondary circuit failure. Generated when the car died. Nothing to do with Intake Air Heater.
543 Same as 542.
556 As above.

So the source of your problem is the Coil 3 circuit. Strange as one would think it would be Coil 2 with #2 and #6 not firing. In my experience the problem is almost always the DIS Module, not the coil pack. The modules are supposed to have heat sink grease on the back to stop them overheating. You could try some of this, but it may not help. A single sachet is sufficient:


Be aware that the DIS is grounded through its bottom two bolts. If that doesn't work:


Or cheaper at Rock Auto:

 
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FastCAD

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93 3.0l V6 (Yamaha motor)
Mtx

the car runs, stars fine, just not firing all cylinders. sluggish acxel at lower Rpms (I can floor it in 1st /2nd and no fast pickup. secondaries work. KOER test only showed 4 cylinders.


okay so, I have done fuel pressure test, cylinder pressure test, purchased new coil pack (NGK which works fine technically), still have oem coil as back up in case. newer wires, spark plugs are decently good. (Bosch), yes I'm aware of the motor craft being superior. in cylinder 2, the spark plug looks brand new, even after a couple months.)

CODES:

KOEO 11-29-2021

O 0114 P0114 Intake Air Temperature Circuit Intermittent
O 0556 P0556 - Brake Booster Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance

C 0217 P0217 - Engine Over temp Condition
C 0542 P0542 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit High
C 0543 P0543 - Intake Air Heater "A" Circuit Open
C 0556

Koer (12-3-21)
r136 - (maybe) I say maybe because when I did the throttle push test, i didn't use gas order, used my hand and it stick wide open for 3 seconds.. (second time this code didn't appear...)

r536
r521


=issues currently known=


--no acceleration /get up at lower idle/take off(especially lower Rpms)
-- garbage MPG
-rocky idle at times (even after resetting ECU it comes back.
-- no power steering (leak issue)

--oil in spark plug well (90% sure a valve gasket is needed)
-- gas smell while inside car!
-+ Rare occasions it will die when coming to a stop. but starts back up.



!# actions thus far #!

- tested MAF via multimeter/unplug method. connector seems to be working, however no change with the disconnect method.
- air temp sensor was replaced, but code still shows (possibly because maf isn't working?
-- new air filter
- fuel line broke(replaced with fuel line((not the plastic the enforced rubber tube)) with no connector.( was this smart or does the connecter help the pressure?
--cleaning fuel injectors with cars cleaner tomorrow!!


results for the fuel test were

running : 32pai
idle: 10 psi
throttling : 27/28pai

pressure cylinder test was as followed.

(see pic , if I need to label cylinders I will...)


where so I begin please help. this is my first car I have actually tried to work in myself any tips??
a bad cam sensor will give you some of those symptoms.
start the engine and while running disconnect the cam sensor if there is no change then the sensor could be bad.
if you have multiple tries to start the engine then it is another sign of a bad cam sensor.
 

BaySHO Performance

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a bad cam sensor will give you some of those symptoms.
start the engine and while running disconnect the cam sensor if there is no change then the sensor could be bad.
if you have multiple tries to start the engine then it is another sign of a bad cam sensor.
Trouble with that prognosis is that a code 214 would have been generated if it was bad.
 

Josh.berding7689

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Something fishy about the codes you state. Ones beginning with 'P' are those that come up on 96+ Fords, not your 93. So what code reader are you using?

Here are the code meanings for your '93:


I will assume that the 114 and first 556 were On Demand codes that happened during the test. Interpreting yours from that list:

On Demand:

114 ACT (Air Charge Temp) can be ignored
556 Fuel Pump Relay Primary Circuit Failure. Car runs, so ignore. Nothing to do with Brake Booster.

Stored:

217 Coil 3 circuit failure. Nothing to do with Engine over temp.
542 Fuel Pump Secondary circuit failure. Generated when the car died. Nothing to do with Intake Air Heater.
543 Same as 542.
556 As above.

So the source of your problem is the Coil 3 circuit. Strange as one would think it would be Coil 2 with #2 and #6 not firing. In my experience the problem is almost always the DIS Module, not the coil pack. The modules are supposed to have heat sink grease on the back to stop them overheating. You could try some of this, but it may not help. A single sachet is sufficient:


Be aware that the DIS is grounded through its bottom two bolts. If that doesn't work:


Or cheaper at Rock Auto:


I'm using the Innova reader 3145.
everytime I type in my C codes it automatically changes them to p codes.. via google. first set are O codes then next set are the C codes...

I definitely was converting them to OBD2 codes ..... smh..

anywho,

WIRE diagram for coil are good I know about the 5-6 plugs they are good. it runs on, just no power in the throttle. or say not ENOUGH. AND THE FEL XYLJNDERS NOT CATCHING SPARK
 
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FastCAD

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agree

DIS or PCM is not a bad place to start. along with checking plug wire routing if they were removed/replaced
agreed
the codes didn't make much sense and if it's a pcm problem then it's not much help & $$$
the dis is a few $$ & make sure you get the right part for dohc motor & install. is important.

I still think the blue SHO was the most "rare" but the green SHO was "most popular" no?
 

rubydist

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114 ACT code cannot be ignored - it is the most important one on the list.

The numbers of the codes go from most important to least important, so the lower numbers are the most important. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, these engines will never run right with a 114 code, you must address that one first.
 

BaySHO Performance

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114 ACT code cannot be ignored - it is the most important one on the list.

The numbers of the codes go from most important to least important, so the lower numbers are the most important. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, these engines will never run right with a 114 code, you must address that one first.
Certainly that's true for ABS codes, but EEC codes are displayed in ascending order. I consider the 217 coil 3 circuit failure as far more important because that's what s causing the engine to only fire on four cylinders. But the ACT code needs to be taken care of at some point.
 

Josh.berding7689

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ok so UPDATE:

-Cleaned out fuel injectors/intake (used throttle cleaner in fuel rail while running) and in vacuum line.
-oxygen sensor confirmed dead 0.00 ohms( connector wire to oxygen sensor itself.) and looks dirty as ****
- check engine code 217 (going to check connectors from injectors to pcm wires.) should fix my cylinder or problem
- cleaned throttle out .

I have a couple more but gotta head back to work. will update soon.
 

BaySHO Performance

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ok so UPDATE:

-Cleaned out fuel injectors/intake (used throttle cleaner in fuel rail while running) and in vacuum line.
-oxygen sensor confirmed dead 0.00 ohms( connector wire to oxygen sensor itself.) and looks dirty as ****
- check engine code 217 (going to check connectors from injectors to pcm wires.) should fix my cylinder or problem
- cleaned throttle out .

I have a couple more but gotta head back to work. will update soon.
Bosch 13942 for the O2s from Rock Auto.
Code 217 is coil 3 circuit failure. The problem is the DIS (most likely), coil pack, or open circuit between the two (least likely). Nothing to do with the injector wiring.
 

Josh.berding7689

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Bosch 13942 for the O2s from Rock Auto.
Code 217 is coil 3 circuit failure. The problem is the DIS (most likely), coil pack, or open circuit between the two (least likely). Nothing to do with the injector wiring.
I was more so talking about the wires in between the pcm to the coils. I was going to start at injectors for the cylinders that are down, check wiring as go from there towards pcm. Nord light possibly. I think it's a pulse ground or something along that line. I feel it's a wiring issue from there to the pcm because , well it just had to be ha ha. I may mess with it tomorrow.

question though , is the top engine cleaner (seafoam I believe) worth trying out? I have a can but I wanted to get every cylinder firing before I do this.

also if I had gotten throttle/carb cleaner on wires or maybe a hot pipe how bad are we talking. I ask because smoke, smell from the engine to the inside.
 

Josh.berding7689

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basically I got the OBD1 code list , went to Google with the code description, and it came back as the circuit code. when I f
search this (Google) it converts it to code P0353. is this valid or not so much?
 

rubydist

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I agree with Nick on this one - the coil code is far more likely to be a bad DIS in my experience, although wiring is certainly a possibility.

I have used Seafoam and I'm not sure it does all that much. I've been using Marvel Mystery oil lately for top end cleaning. Its not as impressive visually (no huge cloud of white smoke), but it seems to be more effective in my personal experience.
 

Josh.berding7689

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ok well I am going to check out the wires today from pcu to icm to the coils. wish me luck!
so after I test the wires (using multimeter) and everything checks out, next option would be the dis probably?
 

luigisho

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PRobably. How much movement do you have under the hood? Any cracks on DIS module? Those wiring clips don't have alot of slack so if the engine movement gets going it can crack the module. At this age all car components are beyond expected utility. Always have access to a backup vehicle if you own a multidecade old car.
 

BaySHO Performance

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Codes starting with P are 96+ OBD2 codes rather than 93 OBD1 codes. No such thing as an OBD1 353. Use OBD1:


You might have a 217: coil 3 circuit failure which has knocked out cylinders 3 and 4 (and the gas smell indicates that those cylinders are getting plenty of fuel). The circuit consists of the DIS module at one end, the coil pack at the other, and the wiring in between. Nothing more than that. It would also be highly unlikely that you had two injectors both fail at the same time.

However, your title says 'No spark 2 and 6'. If that was the case the code should be 216 coil 2 rather than 217 coil 3.

So I'd start with seeing if the plugs are firing. If you don't have a spark plug tester:


The one thing you haven't tried is a replacement DIS (aka ICM). This is the most common problem with ignition. It could be that it's overheated and got permanently damaged because of a lack of heat sink grease on the back. Standard LX242 from:


One sachet of heat sink grease on the back is plenty:


FYI the DIS is grounded through the bottom two bolts holding it on, so don't leave those out while testing..

Ignition circuit for a '94 attached. 93 the same.
 

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