Requirements for forged pistons...

[nik97]

... Besides 850 bucks.

What, if anything, is required or recommended to install them? Specifically, wrist pin bushings, rod resizing or any other parts replacement or modification. I'm seriously considering upgrading for piece of mind and because I'm addicted to boost. 9.5:1 seems like and acceptable CR. Also, Wiseco? JE? YamahaSHO, Toolman, twr, SHOMurph any input?

Thanks.

 

[Toolman]

Oh, you are going to hate me, but I just worked out a trade for my 9:1 JE forged 3.2, rebuilt with low miles. At the least, get your block inspected, clean up the bores (might as well get an overbore to 3.2), all new bearings if needed, and obviously any other maintenance items such as that. I have heard the wrist pins and rods on the 3.2 are stronger, but I have not had a problem with my 3.0 hardware in 60k miles of abuse.

 

[thecrew2999]

3.2 stuff is better in many ways but no one reported has blow anything on a SHO motor threw too much power, just threw mistakes.

 

[K-Dawg]

The Wiseco pistons come with the wrist pins and rings, which is about all you need to replace just the pistons.

 

[nik97]

Oh, you are going to hate me, but I just worked out a trade for my 9:1 JE forged 3.2, rebuilt with low miles. At the least, get your block inspected, clean up the bores (might as well get an overbore to 3.2), all new bearings if needed, and obviously any other maintenance items such as that. I have heard the wrist pins and rods on the 3.2 are stronger, but I have not had a problem with my 3.0 hardware in 60k miles of abuse.

This 3.2 block is freshly rebuilt. It was decked, honed and magged and I installed all new bearings and rings. It's got about 6K on it so I will probably reuse the rings that are seated to the bores huh?

Pretty basic install I guess?

 

[twr]

I will be running 3.2 rods that have been flash ground and shot peened, whenever I finally get around to finishing the other motor. As has already been stated, wrist pins and rings come with the new pistons.

 

[Off Road SHO]

Nick,

Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I think you're throwing dollars in the wrong direction. Low comp pistons are way down the road, down in the neighborhood where you cut the cylinder to match each individual piston.

If you want to go faster, up the boost, cool the charge even more, add nitrous, control the spark timing and fuel mixture, and last but not least, lose some weight.

Replace the stock seats with some lightweight race seats (just for the track runs).

You are already at the point of tranny breakage. Keep the core motor stock so you can swap in another from the Junk yard when you blow this one up. And you will.

Tom

 

[sho_sc]

Don't we need to rebalance the rotating assembly?

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

Nick,

and last but not least, lose some weight.

Tom

I'm glad Tom said something, I was gonna suggest you shed a few pounds in the gut region....

 

[Phoenix]

Can you list your complete setup so we can try to guide?

Like Tom said , pistons should be the last mod to be invested in.

Tweecer + fuel + more boost?

 

[twr]

Don't we need to rebalance the rotating assembly?

Yeah, that too. To me that goes with out mentioning.

Nick,

Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I think you're throwing dollars in the wrong direction. Low comp pistons are way down the road, down in the neighborhood where you cut the cylinder to match each individual piston.

If you want to go faster, up the boost, cool the charge even more, add nitrous, control the spark timing and fuel mixture, and last but not least, lose some weight.

Replace the stock seats with some lightweight race seats (just for the track runs).

You are already at the point of tranny breakage. Keep the core motor stock so you can swap in another from the Junk yard when you blow this one up. And you will.

Tom

I can agree with Tom on this. I've been consistantly running 12 to 15psi through my stock motor for the better part of three years and 20k miles. But I'm also 5000 feet above sea level, so I'm starting with a 3psi+/- handicap. I'm only going to forged pistons and after cooler so I can add a bunch of timing back in and pick up some power that way.

 

[nik97]

Nick,

Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I think you're throwing dollars in the wrong direction. Low comp pistons are way down the road, down in the neighborhood where you cut the cylinder to match each individual piston.

If you want to go faster, up the boost, cool the charge even more, add nitrous, control the spark timing and fuel mixture, and last but not least, lose some weight.

Replace the stock seats with some lightweight race seats (just for the track runs).

You are already at the point of tranny breakage. Keep the core motor stock so you can swap in another from the Junk yard when you blow this one up. And you will.
Tom

Kind of what I'd like to avoid. I really just want to know my pistons wont crack if I feel like upping the boost. If I turn up the boost to say 10lbs, I will have to drive it differently to keep the driveline from being damaged. However, I know stock pistons will only put up with so much for so long until thet crack a ring land and compression is lost. I've already cracked 1 piston and I'm constantly worried about the others. Granted, balancing the fuel syustem/rail and achieving some timing/fule control would help and that is in the works. IDK, seems like a worth whle upgrade. It seems that every stock motor pops under boost sooner or later.

 

[nik97]

Yeah, that too. To me that goes with out mentioning.

So, you can't just throw 'em in? I was planning on leaving the block and trans in car and just replacing them. My rotating assy. is likely already out of balance since I have piston/rod assemblies from 2 different engines.

 

[twr]

So, you can't just throw 'em in? I was planning on leaving the block and trans in car and just replacing them. My rotating assy. is likely already out of balance since I have piston/rod assemblies from 2 different engines.

If both engines were 3.0 or 3.2 - then you should be pretty close to balanced. It's when you mix rods/pistons and cranks from different displacements that throws things out of wack. If you do new pistons, than you will want to have the rotating assembly balanced.

 

[Toolman]

Can you list your complete setup so we can try to guide?

Like Tom said , pistons should be the last mod to be invested in.

IDK, seems like a worth whle upgrade. It seems that every stock motor pops under boost sooner or later.

Forged pistons ARE a worthwhile upgrade. IMO, for a dedicated turbo build, they should be the FIRST mod to invest in. The time and money it will take to replace a blown engine is worth more than the cost of the pistons. 60kmiles of hard boost (up to 25psi) and my forged JE's are still going strong. If you use stock pistons, YOU WILL BLOW SOMETHING UP, GAURANTEED, unless you have amazing self restraint and can keep your boost under 10psi for the life of the car.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I would do something to the transmission first, then consider upgrading the motor. Even at altitude, Scott just shredded 3rd gear last week on the turbo kit that "doesn't work".


With your intercooler and a water/intercooler sprayer (great for hot, DRY climate), you can push that stock motor pretty far.

I bet you could run a consistant 10PSI on the stock motor as long as the charge cooling and timing are taken care of.

If you do decide to build a motor, I'll PM you my numer (if you'd like)... If you'd like some more direct information about my build.

 

[Shoaz]

I'm glad Tom said something, I was gonna suggest you shed a few pounds in the gut region....

He's married now, so that ain't gonna happen.

Kind of what I'd like to avoid. I really just want to know my pistons wont crack if I feel like upping the boost. If I turn up the boost to say 10lbs, I will have to drive it differently to keep the driveline from being damaged. However, I know stock pistons will only put up with so much for so long until thet crack a ring land and compression is lost. I've already cracked 1 piston and I'm constantly worried about the others. Granted, balancing the fuel syustem/rail and achieving some timing/fule control would help and that is in the works. IDK, seems like a worth whle upgrade. It seems that every stock motor pops under boost sooner or later.

I suspect you'd go further toward eliminating internal failure with a good tune than you will with expensive internals. I suspect the issues you've been seeing are probably due to momentary (or not) lean issues (or something like that) that are causing problems. Unless/until you can eliminate that as an issue, and I think tuning is the only real way to do that, spending money on the internals as a reliability strategy is probably not the best way to go.

Other external strategies like water injection/spray might go a long ways, too.

I would do something to the transmission first, then consider upgrading the motor. Even at altitude, Scott just shredded 3rd gear last week on the turbo kit that "doesn't work".

Stock tranny or had it at least been shimmed?

With your intercooler and a water/intercooler sprayer (great for hot, DRY climate), you can push that stock motor pretty far.

I bet you could run a consistant 10PSI on the stock motor as long as the charge cooling and timing are taken care of.

x2

 

[yamahaSHO]

Stock tranny or had it at least been shimmed?

It was just a stock Vadim rebuild... It was likely out of spec and very sloppy. He is working on getting a shimmed and shot peened transmission as we speak. If you're not going with Josh's gearset, I think that's you next best option. I think Scott is a great test horse to see how much power the shimmed/shot peened combo does as he will test the crap out of it. He can be VERY ******* a car

 

[nik97]

If both engines were 3.0 or 3.2 - then you should be pretty close to balanced. It's when you mix rods/pistons and cranks from different displacements that throws things out of wack. If you do new pistons, than you will want to have the rotating assembly balanced.

So building another shortblock is the plan, basically? Forgive my ignorance but, how exactly does a machine shop balance a rotating assy?

 

[nik97]

I bet you could run a consistant 10PSI on the stock motor as long as the charge cooling and timing are taken care of.

The timing, fuel, and charge cooling issues are going to be adressed regardless. I have almost every component I need less a meth kit and Josh's Hi flow kit. It will be tuned before any internal upgrades are made. I'm not looking for a way to avoid that by having forged pistons. I just think it's agood idea and the foundation for further more power later on down the road.
I just want to know, mechanically, whats required to run forged pistons. So far I've discovered that they must be balanced w/ the rotating assy(machine shop?). I also wanted to know if they fit right with unmodified 3.2 rods and any other detaisl...

I appreciate everyone's opinions. Really just trying to gather the mechanical requirements and info. :wave: