Crank Bolt Won't Thread In!!?? FIXED!!!!!

[JRA2000TL]

the bolt has a perment washer and is tapered into a cone-ish shape near the washer part... im not sure if this is important but personally i wouldnt change it

Going to repair the existing bolt or obtain another SHO crank bolt, which I have already sourced, should I need it. Yes, this bolt is unique in the fact that it does have the permanent washer tapered on it. I would not want to substitute anything else.

 

[SHOhopefull]

Ahh, gotcha...

 

[JRA2000TL]

What a nightmare....called all over town and found 1 place that had an M14x1.5 die for 4bucks, so I got that and ran the bolt through it to clean the threads up (it went through the die only 3/4 of the way though). It still would not thread into the crank snout, which means my crank threads are farked. I can order a $50-60 M14x1.5 bottoming tap and a wrench and try that. No specialty tool place around here has the tap.

Is this repairable or is my car a $2000 paperweight? Will the tap repair those threads and get my car back together minus crank cancer?

 

[Off Road SHO]

Yes, it's repairable. Wondering why you only got the die 3/4 of the way down the bolt. Did you use oil, start it straight?

Tom

 

[JRA2000TL]

Yes, it's repairable. Wondering why you only got the die 3/4 of the way down the bolt. Did you use oil, start it straight?

Tom

Started it straight, didn't use oil or wd-40...doh...forgot. See, this is why I don't need to work on cars!

Tom, could you or someone send me a link or show me the exact tap I need. I was told a bottoming tap and the machine shop guy said go in 1st with a tapering tap then a bottoming tap. I'm confused now and these taps are $50 or so each. I don't want to buy the wrong thing or screw it up twice. The parts store has a tap wrench/holder for 12 bucks. Then I also saw somewhere that mentioned a drill. Now I'm totally confused.

I need to know exactly what to get. Kirk told me to go get that loaner tool again (harmonic balancer puller) and compare the threads of it to the bolt to see if they were similar. Figures, someone else has borrowed it, but I'll get it again when I get the chance.

In looking down into the crank snout with my work light, I see the 1st part where the screw grabs is messed up, (it's shiny as if its been cut). It looks like maybe I can get lucky and fix that first part and hopefully it will thread in after that.

Edit...I bought this tap on Ebay (yes, I know we're not supposed to use links, no it's not SHO related, no it's not trying to circumvent the system--just for ref. to make sure I bought the right thing b/c I'm up to my ass in alligators with this car right now)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110312152114&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Come to think of it....the harmonic balancer threader goes in and out easy now but when I pulled it, I may have had to use a little force....if that's the case, I may have "bored out" the threads larger.....if that happened there may be an issue with trying to re-thread it back to normal size. What a mess this is.

 

[93rev2sev]

A bottoming tap is not what you want for the crank snout. A bottoming tap is great for cutting threads right down to the bottom of the hole.

A standard tap is starting or repairing threads.

If you're cutting NEW threads:
Once you've got threads...then and only then should you use a bottoming tap to "finish" the job.

Concentrate on the bolt.

If the puller bolt threads into the crank, use it to see where the crank bolt is buggered. Put the two items 'thread on thread' and examine the fit.

 

[JRA2000TL]

A bottoming tap is not what you want for the crank snout. A bottoming tap is great for cutting threads right down to the bottom of the hole.

A standard tap is starting or repairing threads.

If you're cutting NEW threads:
Once you've got threads...then and only then should you use a bottoming tap to "finish" the job.

Concentrate on the bolt.

If the puller bolt threads into the crank, use it to see where the crank bolt is buggered. Put the two items 'thread on thread' and examine the fit.

Eh...I was told a bottoming tap, so another $33 wasted, I guess. I used wd-40 and held the die in some pliers and used the socket and was able to thread the bolt on all the way into the die and clean it up---still won't thread in the crank. I think the tapered end of the threaded rod from the puller is what boogered the end. I'm so frustrated at this point, I want to put the car on a dolly, take it to a shop with my bolt and say "fix it".

The tools are impossible to find unless I order them online for a hefty fee, and I particularly don't trust myself to fix what I've already screwed up. The machine shops locally are worthless (or at least seem to be); and none have anything above an M12....and they call themselves machine shops?

I have too much $ into this car to trash it, and I like it, but I can't afford to put another motor in it if I have to.

Can someone post a link of EXACTLY what tap to buy, how to run it all the way through the snout start to finish, etc. so I don't make an even bigger mess out of this situation.

 

[93rev2sev]

You need a fvrking mentor.

That's not an insult; wanna be clear. You have almost the right idea with everything but it seems mechanics aren't something that you can just look at and say "ah, that's what needs to happen to get me from here to there"...

You do that with money. Everyone shaking their head at you does that with chunks of iron and aluminum. Bottom line is...I only "get" money because I had a mentor. I just fail at executing what he taught me. Good thing I'm handy...lol.

 

[jayro]

Both the taps should cut the same thead. If I'm not mistaken, the only difference is that a normal tap is tapered at the beginning. This is to help you center it and gradually increase the thread cuts until they are at the correct depth/size. The flat bottom doesn't have the drastic taper. When cutting the thread spray down the grooves on the tap frequently with wd40. Also once it starts cutting.....turn it about half a turn forward and then back it out half a turn....then turn half a turn past your last stopping point, then turn back half a turn. Keep going till your done. I usually will run the tap back and forth a few times to make sure the threads are clean. Good luck.....this is a fixable issue.

 

[JRA2000TL]

Thanks guys. Napa has one for 5 bucks that they can get first thing in the morning. Sucks I bought this other one on ebay for $33, but oh well. Bolt threads look good now (got the die all the way on and off, threads are nice and "sharp")...just need to get one of those long tap wrench holder things, get the tap, and give it a shot tomorrow after work and say a big prayer that this bolt goes back in. I HOPE I didn't bore the hole out larger w/ that puller tool.

 

[SHORANGERBIRD]

new bolt: Grayson Ford (606) 474-5414.

 

[93rev2sev]

I was gonna edit...but I see the thanks so

You can use the bottoming tap. Just keep in mind that a normal tap is somewhat self-centering and will "find" the threads for you. A bottoming tap assumes you already have some good threads and just want to thread the hole all the way to the bottom...Since you have good threads, a bottoming tap isn't tapered

I hope you've had yer butt under there and have stared "eye to eye" with that crank snout with plenty of light.

If you've gone all this way without actually inspecting the threads on the crank snout, I'll suggest that.

Other suggestions:
Wrap teflon tape on the puller bolt and thread it in there really slowly - about 1/4 turn after it catches. Inspect the pattern on the teflon and see if you can tell where the thread ends. This may help to identify the problem.

Regrind the entrance of the threads on the crank bolt. Your die may not be cutting deeply enough to remove the collapsed entrance. I'll go into detail in a PM if others agree this is viable. Pics will be included..

 

[93rev2sev]

What you need is another crank bolt. See if it'll go in. If it does, great.

see how the end thread is tapered down? you can grind that with just about any hand file or even a knife sharpening stone.

 

[St Louis SHO]

Ive also had good luck turning the die upside down and running it onto the bolt. This has to be done carefully, to make sure it stays straight.

I was gonna edit...but I see the thanks so

You can use the bottoming tap. Just keep in mind that a normal tap is somewhat self-centering and will "find" the threads for you. A bottoming tap assumes you already have some good threads and just want to thread the hole all the way to the bottom...Since you have good threads, a bottoming tap isn't tapered

I hope you've had yer butt under there and have stared "eye to eye" with that crank snout with plenty of light.

If you've gone all this way without actually inspecting the threads on the crank snout, I'll suggest that.

Other suggestions:
Wrap teflon tape on the puller bolt and thread it in there really slowly - about 1/4 turn after it catches. Inspect the pattern on the teflon and see if you can tell where the thread ends. This may help to identify the problem.

Regrind the entrance of the threads on the crank bolt. Your die may not be cutting deeply enough to remove the collapsed entrance. I'll go into detail in a PM if others agree this is viable. Pics will be included..

 

[Off Road SHO]

You don't need to buy a tap handle to use a tap. The square end of the tap will fit a 12 point socket so while you're buying the tap, buy a 12 point socket to match that fits your 3/8 drive ratchet. For a 14 mm tap, my guess would be a 10, 11, (7/16) or 12 mm 12 point socket will do the trick

A bottoming tap in a blind hole has nowhere for the chips to fall out and away from the cutting flutes, so after about 3 full turns in, remove it from the hole completely and clear it with compressed air. Re-oil the tap and go some more.

In a pinch you can use a standard tap and go as far as you can with it (to where the point contacts the back of the hole) and then make a bottoming tap out of it by cutting or grinding off the taper. You can also make a pretty good thread chaser from a grade 8 bolt by cutting angled spiral grooves in the bolt threads with a dremel or die grinder; but that will be discussed in Machine Tool 204.

BTW, used motor oil makes a great cutting oil.

And a word of caution about using the threaded puller shaft to chase threads. Make darn sure that the threads are exactly the same, ie. metric and not SAE NF (National Fine). Some NF threads are the same pitch as some metric threads and seeming will thread in easily. Too easily. As soon as you put some torque to it, it jumps a pitch, rounding off the peaks of the threads.

Tom

 

[SHOhopefull]

Jeremy, I know this may be an obvious question, but did you pull the fender liner out? It should give you a better shot at the hole...

 

[JRA2000TL]

Jeremy, I know this may be an obvious question, but did you pull the fender liner out? It should give you a better shot at the hole...

Yes, and I managed to destroy all the plastic clips when pulling them out, which I hope I can find in the Help section of the parts store.

I am off to Napa at lunch to pick up the $5 tap, and I'm going to give it a shot. Hopefully it will work; I will post an update.

 

[JRA2000TL]

SHOforum, you guys just plain ROCK! That's all I have to say. Thank you so much for your help everyone, especially Tom and Tom, lol. A $5 M14x15 tap from Napa, a helluva lot of WD-40, and a 3/8 socket and that sucker went right in and repaired the threads. Crank bolt will now screw all the way in (I hope ALL the way; if not I have a bottoming tap coming to finish the tip if need be). But all in all, it should be FIXED!!!! I do suck at working on cars, but I CAN do it! Took all of 2 minutes to fix what I thought was a ruined motor. I haven't fully got the car assembled, but I'm hoping the bolt will go in as far as it needs to go and that I don't have any issues once I re-assemble everything.

Pic to prove it's fixed!

 

[kevinspann]

Praise jesus (in all caps, shoforum was nice enough to edit that for me)

 

[Off Road SHO]

Booyah! We knew you could do it; only you had doubts.

If you find that the crank's threads do in fact need re-tapping all the way in the back, AND your new tap has a smaller shank than its cutting teeth (some do, some don't) you can grind off the tapered part of your tap and make a bottoming tap out of it. A dremel or just a bench grinder will do it for you.

Congrats on winning.

Tom