frosho
WOLFMAN
Maybe you should research the effects of detonation.
Dry sump
- Thread starter firebat45
- Start date
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HotRodKid
mmmmm ... turbo
detonation can very easily cause rod bearing damage, and even main bearing damage. SOMETHING always has to break first.
google "detonation rod bearings"
google "detonation rod bearings"
gmail
Well-Known Member
rod bearing failures happen on what type of cars that we can use examples of?
N/A cars that almost never see maintenance, people run shit oil and shit filters and never change their oil or beat a ice cold engine etc.
F/I guys i cant think of one who has had a rob bearing failure related to detonation, only rod bearing failure i can think of F/I is yamasho due to hot oil.
i use the F/I guys because they maintain their cars, good oil, 60k etc
the knock sensor and stock programming on a unmolested SHO will probley never see detonation
**** the programming is so rich under almost all conditions you probley couldnt DET with the craziest spark map you could put in there
im not trying to be rude to you in all honesty im just stating my point.
also im speaking of SHOs here
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frosho
WOLFMAN
It happens. My last SHO would detonate at low revs (mostly starting from a stop) with 87 octane.
Edit: Make that any octane less than premium.
Edit: Make that any octane less than premium.
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BlackonBlack89
SHO Member
Sorry there no way to do this cheaply and inexpensive. the pumps cost some coin, let alone all the AN fittings/line (only thing I would use) I bet thats just under 1k in parts......and u still need a custom crank pulley w/ a cog setup someway.
Who in there right mind would cheap out on the OILING SYSTEM of the engine. I would want the best stuff i could afford, if I were doing it. Sorry but this would take some time and would def. need someone expirence in this area. But to me thats the right way.
ANd how much HP could u gain from a it. 10% being generous. Just get a crank scraper!
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HotRodKid
mmmmm ... turbo
yes it can be done inexpensively. AN fittings and braided lines are nice, but they dont do anything that barb fittings and high pressure hose cant do.
a custom crank pulley can be made by afixing a sump drive to the stock crank pulley and if done correctly you can have the crank pulley bolt on first THEN the sump drive goes on, this will ensure that the crank pulley gets tq'ed properly and separately of the sump drive.
a custom crank pulley can be made by afixing a sump drive to the stock crank pulley and if done correctly you can have the crank pulley bolt on first THEN the sump drive goes on, this will ensure that the crank pulley gets tq'ed properly and separately of the sump drive.
You most certainly can gain 10% additional power with dry sump. For the same hp gain and price you could buy cams? So whats the difference?
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
Becasue cams for an n/a SHO are also a waste of $$$.
BlackonBlack89
SHO Member
U guys make a dry sump for 650 bucks....yea ok. Sorry I wouldn't want it on my Beater. it will break,burst, or just fail. Let alone I mentioned two things. What bout everything else?
and HRK sorry I firmly disagree with that. I dont even like the 8" rubber hose drain on my S/C return. U can do that but u like doing things twice or swapping motors/money lost on a now toasted modded motor. Go right ahead. I am jealous bout this but not everyone has access to CAD or even a machine shop. Theres not much room left for the pump/belt if u locate it further out from the acc belts.
And ILLSHOYOU. I never said u cant....I did say 10%. Just I think it would be less. hence why I said generous
And u can get more than 10% with cams. wats the difference? idk u tell me ur pretty smart. (hint: bolt-in)
10% of 220= 22Chp. I would bet u can get atleast 22Whp with a tri-flow or +10 on a stock car....but who cams a stock SHO
Guys dont get me wrong. If it can be done on a budget and work. cool! But I, I would want all AN lines, oil cooler(s), thermostatic vavle, r emote filter, ect. To actually get the maximum benifeits from it AND on par relibilty with the much less complex stock setup. And that cost money.
and HRK sorry I firmly disagree with that. I dont even like the 8" rubber hose drain on my S/C return. U can do that but u like doing things twice or swapping motors/money lost on a now toasted modded motor. Go right ahead. I am jealous bout this but not everyone has access to CAD or even a machine shop. Theres not much room left for the pump/belt if u locate it further out from the acc belts.
And ILLSHOYOU. I never said u cant....I did say 10%. Just I think it would be less. hence why I said generous
And u can get more than 10% with cams. wats the difference? idk u tell me ur pretty smart. (hint: bolt-in)
10% of 220= 22Chp. I would bet u can get atleast 22Whp with a tri-flow or +10 on a stock car....but who cams a stock SHO
Guys dont get me wrong. If it can be done on a budget and work. cool! But I, I would want all AN lines, oil cooler(s), thermostatic vavle, r emote filter, ect. To actually get the maximum benifeits from it AND on par relibilty with the much less complex stock setup. And that cost money.
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HotRodKid
mmmmm ... turbo
i dont have access to a machine shop, nor do i have a real cad program
i have a lathe, a set of dial calipers, a dial indicator w/ magnetic base and the emachineshop program. ive also been known to create 3d models of things using the google sketchup program, and then transferring individual line lengths back into emachineshop to do the flat layouts. My plasma, laser, waterjet and machine cutting are all done by outside shops that i have quote the work for me.
also theres a vast difference between rubber hose and high pressure/ high heat hose made for industrial equipment.
i have a lathe, a set of dial calipers, a dial indicator w/ magnetic base and the emachineshop program. ive also been known to create 3d models of things using the google sketchup program, and then transferring individual line lengths back into emachineshop to do the flat layouts. My plasma, laser, waterjet and machine cutting are all done by outside shops that i have quote the work for me.
also theres a vast difference between rubber hose and high pressure/ high heat hose made for industrial equipment.
U guys make a dry sump for 650 bucks....yea ok. Sorry I wouldn't want it on my Beater. it will break,burst, or just fail. Let alone I mentioned two things. What bout everything else?
and HRK sorry I firmly disagree with that. I dont even like the 8" rubber hose drain on my S/C return. U can do that but u like doing things twice or swapping motors/money lost on a now toasted modded motor. Go right ahead. I am jealous bout this but not everyone has access to CAD or even a machine shop. Theres not much room left for the pump/belt if u locate it further out from the acc belts.
And ILLSHOYOU. I never said u cant....I did say 10%. Just I think it would be less. hence why I said generous
And u can get more than 10% with cams. wats the difference? idk u tell me ur pretty smart. (hint: bolt-in)
10% of 220= 22Chp. I would bet u can get atleast 22Whp with a tri-flow or +10 on a stock car....but who cams a stock SHO
Guys dont get me wrong. If it can be done on a budget and work. cool! But I, I would want all AN lines, oil cooler(s), thermostatic vavle, r emote filter, ect. To actually get the maximum benifeits from it AND on par relibilty with the much less complex stock setup. And that cost money.
I was just stating that the cost could yield the same power as cams. Thats why I said there is not much difference between those two items.
Okay, to bring it to your level...
Buick grand nationals...you can build them, boost them, but a poor head design causes the head gaskets to blow from detonation...same goes for the 1989 trans am 3.8 turbo.
Fast forward to the GMC syclone and typhoon... head hasket failure fixed...detonation takes out rods, bearings, and cranks.
What makes you think this is different for older SHO models? I can bring up other cars the still prove that.
Detonation will take out the heads first, not many SHOs suffer this as the great head design. Why do you think rod bearings fail? It goes to the next weakest link...
Agreed, as the only one to produce a running and driving RWD SHO, a dry sump is not necessary and I think is a waste BUT there are some on here that would go dry sump if they found out it was not as expensive as they thoughy.
You fail to know that I owned a 500hp supercharged and nitrous SHO...
You have it backwards...cams for a F/I SHO are a waste when you can up the boost for pennys on the dollar rather than $400 on cams.
HotRodKid
mmmmm ... turbo
THATS IT ! im tuning my car for detonation after TDC, my honda will finally have torque !
SHOtime2511
CGP
your SHO had another issue causing detonation.
on a stock or near stock SHO and quality 87 it should not detonate period.
frosho
WOLFMAN
I know, I just brought it up because gmail made it sound like a SHO won't detonate, period.
