Engine Support Details

Discussion in 'Gen 1 & 2 - Guides (For How-to guides, NOT how-to ' started by sdpatt, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. sdpatt

    sdpatt Sr. SHO Engr.

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    I said I would publish the details of the engine support that I used during my clutch and transaxle service and here it is. You can also see the image of the design sheet and the support at work in the photos in the Clutch & Transaxle album... MODERATOR NOTE: Due to PhotoIsland.com shutting down as of 11/22/2004, sdpatt's photo albums are not currently available. This may be a temporary matter if and until he elects to host his photos elsewhere, but in the meanwhile if you need a picture, please FIRST try to search the forum to see if the picture appears elsewhere, and if you can't find what you are looking for, you might try sending sdpatt a Private Message politely asking for the specific photo(s) you're interested in.

    After looking at the design sheet and the photos, I realized that the lateral reinforcements under the cross beam are not readily apparent. At each joint between the cross beams and the support pylons, there are two, traingular 2x4 pieces attached to prevent side-to-side motion.

    [​IMG]
     
    Northwestvoodoo likes this.
  2. NotSoSlowSHO

    NotSoSlowSHO Gas is $$ WALK!

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    Your my hero thumbs_u

    this saves SO much time and energy for SO many people :)
     
  3. luigisho

    luigisho SHO Member

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    lol. Graph paper! I love it. Thanks again from all us SHO owners Scott. thumbs_u

    How about having HunterVF put that in his pet project?
     
  4. SHOnuff93

    SHOnuff93 SHO Member

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    Not graph paper, that's engineering paper. Thanks for the blueprints Scott, now all you need to do is draw a free body diagram showing how the forces act on the brace.
     
  5. rangerj

    rangerj SHO Member

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    Scott,

    Thank you Scott. I was kidding about you posting a set of measured drawings! I'm glad you did.

    In order to manuver the transaxel in and out, did you use some sort of transaxel cradle attached to you jack? Transaxels tend to want to roll to the back side. That is why I usually pull the hood and use a hoist with a device that can roll the trans.

    How did you align the trans to the block from under the car? Did you just "muscle" it into alignment using the jack to get it up to the proper height?

    I know there are cradles made to fit on a jack specifically for transaxels, but they are expensive, and I have not found anyone willing to rent theirs out. I do not do enough trans work to justify the expense of buying one.

    It looks like you used a couple of 2x4s to raise and hold the subframe in place to be bolted up, and lowered during the removal process. Is that all you did there?

    Sorry about all the questions, but I'm looking at having to do this sometime soon.

    Thanks again Scott, rangerj
     
  6. sdpatt

    sdpatt Sr. SHO Engr.

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    To lower the transaxle, I just grabbed it with one hand, removed the last bolt with the other, then used both hands to lower it to my chest. Much like a negative flat bench press. It weighs about 100-125 pounds, so it wasn't too hard to get it off the engine.

    Getting it back up there, on the other hand, required the used of the floor jack with 2x4 extenders screwed together and strapped to the lift. To steady the transaxle on the jack, I used a rope through the eye on the case rib and routed over a 2x4 that was screwed across the two support beams. The rope held up the tail of the transaxle. To fit the transaxle back up to the engine required the tail of the case to be lower than the clutch end so that the case could fit over the pressure plate and inside the car's body.

    Once the lower flange of the clutch end was in position, I just had to lift the tail up to get the input shaft in line with the shaft hole in the disc. That and fitting the case on the two dowel pins at the front and rear of the engine block just took a little finesse and a little more muscle. One bolt was in reach to hold the transaxle against the engine after I initially got it into position. I made sure that the case was seated flushly all around and started fitting the remaining bolts.

    I was pleased, but sweaty after fitting the transaxle back up to the engine. It was almost all down hill from there. Fitting the subframe back up was not simple, but physically easier than the transaxle. Check out the lifting rig I made up for that job.

    I am really enjoying driving the car after all that effort with the smooth feel of the new clutch and the sharper shifting with the new blocking rings. With all the seals replaced on the engine over Christmas and the transaxle at the beginning of March, I don't even need a tarp under my car in the garage any longer. She's looking and driving years younger.

    <small>[ April 30, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>
     
  7. shojuan

    shojuan SHO Member

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    Thanks for the pics. That's really some useful stuff! I suspect that a clutch job is one of the "large" jobs that most home mechanics wouldn't normally consider tackling themselves. Useful documentation like this really helps a lot of us on our paths towards auto maintenance self-sufficiency. "If you want it done right, do it yourself" is one of the tenets I hold to when it comes to mechanical repair of an automobile. Because I've been burnt by more than one shoddy clutch jobs I really look forward to do my first clutch on the SHO, and hopefully doing it right. thumbs_u Sorry for the prattle, I guess it's the friday afternoon malt liquor talking. :D beer
     
  8. haydenm315

    haydenm315 SHO Member

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    Sdpatt.... you're the man! Nice mechanical drawing. I took a cad class in hs where we did the same thingon computers. It was pretty cool. I'm approaching clutch time when funds allow. I will be sure to follow your footsteps. I hope that thread doesn't somehow disappear before I get to do my clutch job.
     
  9. Bizzy

    Bizzy Moderator Staff Member

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    Bumpin' it up. Thought some others besides myself might want to view this thread as well. :thumb:

    Edit: After second thought, this topic will be a sticky.
     
  10. SW SHO

    SW SHO Boss Man

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    Thanks Scott and great timing for me as I'm doing the clutch early August.

    I'm having a hard time seeing the acutual measurments from the image above or from your photo album. I've saved it on my cpu, but is there a way to enlarge it?

    Anyone have a suggestion.
     
  11. NotSoSlowSHO

    NotSoSlowSHO Gas is $$ WALK!

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    follow the link. Scott has the original full sized image on his photoisland page ;)
     
  12. SW SHO

    SW SHO Boss Man

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    I neglected to look for the "See Original Size" link. Got it!
     
  13. SolidState

    SolidState No Mo SHO

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    can this be modified to work with a 3.2?
     
  14. Bizzy

    Bizzy Moderator Staff Member

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    Teg, I would imagine that the structure itself would be the same. You might have to re-measure on where the holes would go for the eye bolts though. IIRC the motor sits more over to the passenger side on the ATX than the MTX.
     
  15. SolidState

    SolidState No Mo SHO

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    and slightly forward...

    I am thinking I want to remove my subframe and clean it up....I have had a few oil leakes that have really messed up the underside of my car...
     
  16. Hack

    Hack ...............

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    Very nice Scott, and good thinking on the sticky Beth! Looks like a new weekend project for me!
     
  17. sdpatt

    sdpatt Sr. SHO Engr.

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    Yes, but I believe that the bolt hole in the 3.2L's rear bank head is a larger diameter than that in the 3.0L head. I think it is a 10mm, rather than 8mm bolt. That is a good thing for strength.
     
  18. Sternal2000

    Sternal2000 SHO Member

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    I can't seem to view the picture, what program are you using to do it with?
     
  19. Bizzy

    Bizzy Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think you'd have to modify it too much to adjust for the slightly more forward position on the front. As long as the rear is right over where the chain goes down you should be good to go. Just add a little more paddnig where the chain might touch the front of the intake and pull the crossover tube and rubber off to protect it. I don't think I'd want the forward one any further forward.

    When I built mine and the subframe was lowered that thing didn't even budge or even creak for that matter. And for all those who say it's overkill...I say "Bah!" to you! I'd much rather have a sturdy piece holding the one thing that could crush me in an instant if it fell while I was under there. You can never be too safe! I was a little bit hurt by those who made fun of my support. But after having used it I don't even care. I was safe and I felt safe under it and that's all that matters.

    Sternal2000, here's a copy from Scott's Photoisland page. I had saved it on my computer for reference.
    http://shoforum.com/enginesupport.jpg

    I had to make a few modifications to mine and it didn't turn out like Scott's, no where near as perfect, but it held just fine none the less. I don't have all the tools and equipment he has but I was still greatly satisfied with it.

    This is what mine looks like.
    http://shoforum.com/mysupport.jpg

    Oh, and one more thing. 95-95 heads do use a 10mm versus the one that's specified on Scott's page. They had a different casting than the earlier heads. I have 95 heads on mine. ;)
     
  20. shojuan

    shojuan SHO Member

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    Your support looks fine Beth. Overkill, yes. Those 4X4 pieces could hold up quite a bit. But you didn't have to worry about it being strong enough. That's what's important.

    An alternative, and probably a cheaper one at that and quicker to build for those without a good set of woodshop tools, is the "Nick Chrimes" pipe support. Josh has had these plans up for years: http://www.shonutperformance.com/supportbeam.doc

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Scott's wood support. In fact some people feel more comfortable with wood. And it's attractive to boot. :) Steel IS strong however, so no need to fear the pipe support. Nick has done more clutch jobs than most and the pipe support hasn't failed him that I have heard.

    I think Nick got the pipe and fittings from Home Depot at a cost of about $25. Hard to get wood for that price unless you have it lying around the yard.

    Just throwing an alternative out there. I for one am thankful that Scott and Nick came up with, and published the plans to, their engine supports. Commercial versions exists and they cost quite a bit more than what it would cost to build BOTH of these supports combined.
     

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